[HPforGrownups] Harry, Hermione & Ron [SHIP + CRAB]

Wed Jul 30 19:38:25 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 74222

Charlie Moody wrote (2003-07-30 19:17):

>NOTE - None of what follows is directed at Patricia or Kiev;  this has 
>been
>building up....
>
> From the interview:
>"Chris has...foreshadowed what I don't do until the 4th book, which is 
>that
>you get hints of certain feelings between the three of them 
>that...belong
>to...a slightly more mature person."
>
>Chris, of course, is the director.  The foreshadowing could be said to
>include far more sign of Harry's feelings for Hermione than Ron's.
>
I belive that the key word in quoted interview is word '4th book' -- we 
all know that in 4th book we've got Ron's feelings toward Hermione. 
Naturally, it does not  exclude that it was foreshadowing Harry's 
feeling toward Hermione.

>Kiev:
>  
>
>>The scene I'm referring to is at the very end, after she hugs Harry
>>and then there is a moment of awkwardness between her and Ron.
>>    
>>
>
>The scene is ambiguous:  another way of reading it is that she couldn't
>contain her feelings for Harry, but then she remembered she was being
>stared at by everyone (it's a British boarding school, for cryin' out 
>loud -
>I doubt students go around hugging each other all the time).
>
Agreed.

>In the book, OTOH:
>"Harry didn't know whether the best bit was Hermione running toward him,
>screaming "You solved it!  You solved it!", or Justin hurrying over...."
>(HP+tCoS - p.339 US)
>
>Not a word about Ron & Hermione.
>
Not a word about Harry & Hermione hugging either.

>Kiev:
>  
>
>>  As has been mentioned before, there is always the jealously Ron
>>feels when Hermione is interested in other guys, and as for their
>>constant arguing -- in many examples of literature two people who
>>often bicker at each other end up loving each other eventually. It
>>also Ron that often is the first to come to Hermoine's defense
>>against verbal abuse.
>>    
>>
>
>Point by point:
>Ron exhibits jealousy of Viktor.  Period.  He exhibits no jealousy 
>whatever
>of Harry, even though Hermione spends more of GoF w/ Harry than with 
>him.
>
I, as a faithful R/H shipper, therefore will argue, that's because there 
is no attraction whatsoever between Harry & Hermione.

>Their constant arguing is nothing like the teasing and 
>attention-grabbing
>that occurs among teen-agers when there is an attraction involved.  They
>are friends, they like and even admire each other, but they are very 
>different
>people and it's their differences that fuel the bickering, NOT some 
>imaginary
>mutual attraction.  They squabble like siblings, and her attitude 
>toward Ron
>is very 'big sister' overall. 
>
Very well. So what is the difference between 'siblings' and 'attraction 
involved' squabbles? My sister is 5 years younger, so I don't have any 
experience with 'siblings' squabbles.  From my point of view, such 
distinction is impossible.

> In GoF, she's clearly indifferent to his 
>post-Yule
>sulking & brooding, thinks very little of his emphasis on appearances 
>over
>substance, and generally not terribly impressed w/ Ron as a male.  
>
Is she terribly impressed with any other male? She seems to be 
indifferent to any male (even Victor) -- no giggling, sighing etc.

>In 
>OotP,
>their shared duties and responsibilities as prefects are a further wedge
>between them on a male/female level.  She's irritated by & disapproving 
>of
>his readiness to shirk those duties and responsibilities, and that would
>count heavily against him, even if she WERE considering him as a 
>potential
>mate.
>
Firstly, Hermione's disapprovement of Ron's behaviour as prefect is only 
about his avoidance to properly police his brothers. Canon states 
nothing about other situations where Ron as a prefect didn't do 
something as he should.

>It IS often Ron who's first to defend Hermione...but it's also Harry 
>who's
>OFTEN first to do so.  If you feel you can demonstrate that Ron does so
>MORE often, please do.
>
Quotes (from books 1-4) , are on those R/H ship pages:
http://www.geocities.com/gryffindor_phoenix/ronandhermione.html
http://www.much-ado.net/rhmoments.html
http://www.sugarquill.net/index.php?action=goodshiprh&st=rhtogether
Also, there is excellent essay titled: Why is Hermione Not the Right 
Girl for Harry?
here: http://www.sugarquill.net/index.php?action=goodshiprh&st=angua

I don't feel like anybody is going to count those, but I just quote one 
counterexample from OOP:
"Kreacher's pale eyes widened and he muttered faster and more furiously 
than ever.
'The Mudblood is talking to Kreacher as though she is my friend, if 
Kreacher's mistress saw him in such company, oh, what would she say - '
'Don't call her a Mudblood!' said Ron and Ginny together, very angrily."

>It's quite clear to me that Hermione has already 
>set her
>sights on Harry - he will have to betray / deeply disappoint / greatly 
>offend
>her (maybe all three) in order to drive her away.
>
May I ask why? Are there any proofs for that in canon.

>For his part, Hermione will be the only one on his screens as he grows 
>up.
>He knows her, likes her, admires her, respects her, trusts her 
>absolutely,
>and depends on her.  This is the exact opposite of infatuation:  this 
>is the
>stuff that burrows deep, latches on firmly, and holds people together 
>through
>thick & thin.
>
One might argue the same about Ron. Ron "knows her, likes her, admires 
her, respects her, trusts her absolutely, and depends on her".

>It may be that Harry only discovers his true feelings for 
>Hermione
>when he is forced to contemplate life without her.   If forced to 
>choose between
>her and Ron, I'm afraid it's 'so long, Ron'.
>
That's pure speculations.

>Luna and Harry?  Not a chance.  She and Ron have a much more similar
>sort of vibe, she's much more interested in Ron than in Harry, and so 
>far
>her interactions w/ Harry have been of a 'female Ron'  sort:  comradely,
>companionable, off-hand, very much "guy-style".  MUCH more Ron's type
>(at least, he's a sitting duck for her).  In Book 6, I expect to see 
>her making
>even more effort to catch Ron's attention, in part by simply inserting 
>herself
>into the group;  
>
Most readers  would agree with that.

>I also expect that Luna will have to pass muster w/ 
>Hermione
>as Ron's big sister.
>  
>
'pass muster' according to my dictionary = to be accepted as adequate or 
satisfactory. Do you mean that Luna as alleged Ron's big sister must be 
accepted by Hermione or  simply Luna will be as adequate as Hermione as 
Ron's big sister? Anyhow both those meanings seems to be far-fetched.

>--
>Charlie, whose extremely intelligent 15-year-old daughter spends most of
>her time w/ her boyfriend and her best-guy-friend, who is also her 
>boyfriend's
>best friend (they are both her age).  Sound familiar?
>  
>
No. Mainly because under no circumstances we should consider Hermione as 
Harry's or Ron's girlfriend.

Now let me share some (random) thoughts.
Main problem with SHIPs is, that mating rituals of humans are deeply 
complicated. And adoscolent humans mating rituals are complicated beyond 
comprehension. Almost any behaviour could be interpreted both ways: 
she-loves-him/she-loves-him-not. Not to mention that in Harry Potter 
series JKR did everything that she could to muddy our reception of what 
is _really_ going on on SHIP front.

However, I belive, most clear is R/H SHIP, and it was confirmed by JKR 
herself 
(http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/quickquotes/articles/2003/0620-dateline-couric.htm), 
in the interview with Catie Couric.
I already argued on this forum about parallels between Ron/Hermione & 
Arthur/Molly, and no doubt there was plenty of such discussion so far.

Readers, who engage in SHIP discussions, must remember that we see 
everything from Harry's POV so we know virtually nothing events unless 
Harry witnessed it or was told about it. That unfortunately, leads often 
to assumptions that what Harry had seen is 100% full truth.

Usually, Ron is victim of such assumptions - since all Harry had seen is 
Ron avoiding his prefect duties if they regarded F&G, it was assumed 
that he was a bad prefect. However, Harry (and we) was not present when 
Ron was using his prefect position in various other times. Neither Harry 
heard Hermione complaining about Ron.
Similarly, since Harry is by definition not present when Hermione and 
Ron are spending together time, it is often assumed, that they don't do 
that, and consequently Harry is the one who binds trio together. (Insert 
here counter-examples: Hermione's summer holidays, xmas holidays, 
prefect duties, OOP leaving feast, time when Harry was not allowed in 
Hogsmeade, time when Harry practised with Snape (Lupin), time when Harry 
had detention with Umpridge, time when Harry was practising Quidditch,  
time when Harry was with Cho and numerous other examples when Harry was 
coming through portrait and find Ron & Hermione sitting by fire)
Just because everything what Harry see is Ron moaning about homework it 
is assumed, that Ron is worst student in trio, however we know nothing 
about Ron's results on exams (all we know is that he passed).

So, when arguing something is SHIP, arguer should remeber that if 
something was not stated explicite it does not mean that is not exists.

I deeply apologize if something is unclear here, I typed this message 
too long with too many long words.
Regards,

-- 
Pshemekan
Ron & Hermione SHIP - I hope so; Ron & Hermione friendship -- 100% sure
-- 