Dumbledore and the Prophecy that was

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 74261

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Wanda Sherratt"
<wsherratt3338 at r...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <bboy_mn at y...> wrote:
>>> So the choices are, smash the prophecy so Voldemort will forget
about it and go on about his business of killing people and taking
over the world, OR guard the prophecy for as long as possible, and
keep Voldemort obsessed with getting it, thereby distracting him from
his plan to take over the world. 

Personally, I think the second option, Dumbledore's course of action,
is the much better choice. ... <<<


> Wanda responds:
>
>> ... good explanation for Dumbledore's actions .... ...the only good
one I've read.  The trouble is, it's up  to Rowling to come up with
plausible reasons for the plot she's set in motion, and she doesn't. 
There's NO explanation for why Dumbledore chose this path instead of
the straightforward one described above, of just destroying the
prophecy outright. <<

bboy_mn:
You assume that the options are destroy it or don't destroy it, but
that's not true; the options are guard it or don't guard it. Put it
another way, the choices are protect it, or just ignore it and let it
sit on the shelf where it has been sitting for many years. 

I really see no logical reason why they would want to destroy it. I
guess you could say that destroying it would prevent Voldemort from
getting it just as easily as putting guards around it, but we also
have to remember that this is, in a sense, a public record; it's not
Dumbledore's to destroy. And destroying it outright, leaves Voldemort
free to do other things. As long as it exist, it is a distraction for
Voldemort and this DE's. 



> Wanda responds:
>
>> The whole plot just sits there, as if no justification is
necessary, and so none is offered.  This is why I find OotP
unsatisfactory - the writer seems to think that the reason behind all
the action we've witnessed is self-evident, and it's just illogical. 
It taints the whole book from the root. <<
> 
> Wanda

bboy_mn:
Well, I would never deny you your opinion, but I think it was
self-evident, or at lease vaguely self-evident, that they are using
the prophecy as a diversion based on my superficial interpretation
that the prophecy doesn't say anything that Voldemort could have used
as a weapon.

Also, let's not forget that to some extent, this book is a mystery.
JKR as a way of throwing us curve balls when we least expect it, and
this guarding of the Dept. of Mysteries could be one of them. Notice
that they weren't guarding the Hall of Prophecies, they were guarding
the entire Dept. of Mysteries. That makes me wonder if the prophecy
and the 'weapon' aren't two different things. 

Certainly they were guarding the prophecy, or at least that's what
we've all assumed, although, we are certain that Voldemort wants it
and that he is actively trying to get it and that it is stored in the
Dept of Mysteries, and we know they are guarding a weapon which is
something Voldemort can only get by stealth, something he didn't have
last time. I'm not saying the the weapon is not the prophecy, what I
am saying is that that is the kind of unforeseem plot twist the JKR
likes to throw in.

There could be some clue in the prophecy that gives Voldemort an edge
in his quest for domination of the wizard world, but is there anything
in the prophecy that would qualify as a weapon? ...maybe ...maybe not. 

I'm convinced that the key unlocking the secrets of the prophecy lies
in the proper interpretation of this one line, "... and either must
die at the had of the other for neither can live while the other
survives...". Although, I confess that I don't know what that secret
is. All the other lines of the prophecy seem self-evident, '...Dark
Lord will mark him as his equal, '...he will have power the Dark Lork
knows not...', 'The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will
be born at the end of the seventh month...', '...born to those who
thrice defied him...'. 

I don't see a lot of room for interpretation in those lines, but the
'either ... neither' line, while on one hand is heaped with ambiguites
and odd awkward structure, does also, on the other hand, seem to have
an obvious superficial meaning; either Harry kills Voldemort or
Voldemort kills Harry. ...maybe ...maybe not.

If this is true, then are we to assume that Voldemort and Harry both
have a kind of Fate driven immortality? If Harry falls off the
Astronomy Tower, fate will intervene and prevent his death from
happening? Neither could possibly slip in the shower, or get killed by
lightening because somehow a Prophetic Fate makes them immortal?
...really?

Well, if that's true then that is certainly an advantage to Voldemort.
He can pretty much act with impunity; no mission or action would be
dangerous enough to put him at risk. ...maybe ...maybe not.

Why the awkward structure of that one 'either-neither' line.
Why 'must die at the hand of the other'? Why not 'will die' or 'can
die'? And why 'either must die at the hand of the other'? Why not,
'one must die at the hand of the other' or 'one will die at the hand
of the other' or 'only one can die at the hand of the other' or 'each
can only die at the hand of the other'?

And what about '...neither can live while the other survives.'? What
up with that? The obvious has already been pointed out several times;
they both live right now and they both survive right now, how is that
possible if neither can live while the other survives.

Sadly, I think the true meaning of the prophecy will not be revealed
until the end. It's one of those things that can only be understood in
hindsight. However, knowing that won't stop it from driving me crazy
for the next 6 years (or how ever long it takes to publish two more
books). 

An author that invokes such a deep desire to know that happens next
and what this or that means, certainly can't be an unsatisfactory or
illogical author. No indeed, JKR is cunning, and ruthless in her
devious logic, and while we may be unsatisfied, I am sure she is
sitting at home with a very smug satisfied look on her face.

I think I rambled a bit there, but none the less, it's just a thought.

bboy_mn