[HPforGrownups] OoP: Spoilers two important questions/ Defense of Harry/Intriguing creatures-discrepancy?

[Richelle Votaw]

No: HPFGUIDX 61502

Again, combining several posts into one.

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Steve wrote:

> 1> WHY is Voldy assuming that the prophecy will tell him how 
> he can kill Harry? Seems like a big gamble to me. What am I 
> missing?

I think basically Voldemort is assuming the prophecy will tell him, not so much how to kill Harry (as he seems to still think he can) but what the deal is with Harry.  He does now know that they are connected, and has used that against Harry once already.  He wants to know why, I think.

> The Order doesn't want Voldy to get this "weapon" so they 
> spend so much time guarding it. Podmore is arrested, Arthur 
> almost killed. But 2> WHY are they bothering? the prophecy 
> DOESN'T tell Voldy how to kill Harry. I dont see Voldy 
> getting ANY benefit from hearing the prophecy. WHAT AM I 
> MISSING?

Here's the thing.  So far Voldemort doesn't know that Harry must kill him.  So far, Harry hasn't tried to kill him.  Just to survive.  What Dumbledore knows, is that they must have Harry alive in order to defeat Voldemort.  Harry must kill Voldemort.  No way around it.  Voldemort is quite frequently after Harry already, but if he knew that Harry was the only one who could defeat him, it would be a thousand times worse.  And that is what the Order doesn't want Voldemort to know.  From the sounds of it, if he kills Harry, he wins.

> Marc, commenting on my defense of Harry, when I said
> Harry was lured by his goodness:
> 
> > I disagree with is the comment above. I don't
> think he was lured by his"goodness", but rather his stupidity. 

I (Richelle) answered:

> So, wanting to save people is not good?  Wanting to
> save people is stupid?  

Rebecca said:

> Nobody said that.  But Harry was so worried about
> saving Sirius that he didn't listen to Hermione.  She
> was dead right.  I knew it as soon as she spoke.

Actually, someone did say it.  See above, in Marc's comment.  That Harry wasn't lured by his goodness, but by his stupidity. Since then Marc has clarified that he meant Harry running off was stupid.  And I can still see why he did it.  Time was of the essence, he thought at any second his scar would feel the terrible pain that would tell him Sirius was dead.  The thing is, I don't think we can blame Harry for this one.  Dumbledore is right.  If he'd told him the truth from the start, he'd have known it was a trap.  But he didn't, and what's done is done.  But should an eleven year old be told he must kill Voldemort?  Tough one.

"twister 10_2000" wrote:

> Perhaps you'll only see Thestrals once you admit to yourself 
> that you've seen death. If you go on ignoring the death, than 
> it stands to reason, you could go on ignoring the thestrals.
> For instance...I cannot remember Cho ever mentioning the 
> thestrals. Perhaps she has not admitted/overcome/accepted 
> Cedric's death yet? 

Well, quite frankly, Cho didn't see Cedric die. So regardless whether or not it has to do with acceptance/understanding of death or not, she wouldn't see them.  She experienced death, but didn't see it.  Big difference.  I'm sure almost all students have known someone who died, a grandparent, someone.  But not near as many have witnessed it.

Now, if there is a discrepancy, I don't think it's necessarily Harry's parents death.  He was a baby, couldn't have understood what was happening, just that something bad was happening.  For that matter, James was apparently in the other room when he died, and that leaves Lily.  Harry may well have been crying by this point, as babies feed off emotions, and his eyes could have been closed, he could've been looking away, anything.  

Here's where I see a Flint.  Why didn't Harry see the Thestrals at the end of GoF?  The horseless carriages were in there at the end, I checked.  And surely Harry's not so dense that he could miss that many Thestrals.  So why didn't he see them then?  Why only now, at the beginning of OoP?  Is it a matter of acceptance?  That he was still in denial about what had happened?

Richelle


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