[HPforGrownups] Re: OoP: Harry/Sirius, JKR's 'necessity', etc. [was Re: T...

Wed Jun 25 03:21:21 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 63411

Room for spoiler thingies

All I can really say right now is that, after finishing the book on Saturday 
evening, I have been brought to tears quite a few times at the loss of my 
favourite character... I certainly had believed it would be someone else, and my 
greatest worry is indeed how Harry will react in the future. Harry's one real 
family member on whom he could always count, is now gone, and as wrapped into 
the story as I am, I feel as though I have lost someone to whom I gave my love 
and trust. 

As I have read in articles on the BBC, JKR feels as though she is a murderer 
for this act. Her husband explained that she needn't kill him, but she said it 
was essential to the plot.

-A snuffled snuffles.

'All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty 
recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers 
of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, 
to make it possible. This I did.'  T.E. Lawrence- Seven Pillars of Wisdom

========Original Message======== 
Subj:   [HPforGrownups] Re: OoP: Harry/Sirius, JKR's 'necessity', etc. [was 
Re: The Weapon/Sirius/...]    
Date:   6/24/2003 13:26:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time 
From:   <A HREF="mailto:cyn at thirteen.net">cyn at thirteen.net</A>    
Reply-to:   <A HREF="mailto:HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com">HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com</A>   
To: <A HREF="mailto:HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com">HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com</A>   
Sent from the Internet (Details)    

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Kathryn Cawte" <kcawte at b...> 
wrote:

[i assume we still need to leave spoiler space?  forgive the
possibly-stupid question, i'm a former long-time lurker!]

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>That IMO is the true tragedy of Sirius' death, Harry has
> lost one of the tiny minority of grown-ups who love him for 
> him not for his possible powers (although admittedly part 
> of his love for the boy is because
> he's part of James)

yeah, that's a really good point, and probably one of the reasons 
i'm still so mopey about Sirius—i'm still struggling with
HOW 
Harry is going to get on with his life having lost one of the VERY 
few people who still had the capacity to treat him as a `normal
kid' 
(despite Sirius' arguable tendency to see a little too much of
James 
in Harry).  i was heartbroken re-reading the bit after the kiss, 
where Harry stares into the fire and wishes for nothing more than 
for Sirius to pop up and "give him advice on girls".  this is
such 
a wrenchingly simple part of a normal teenage kid's life, and 
quite obviously, Harry can think of no better person to go to with 
these questions.  can any of us see Lupin, Mr. Weasley, Hagrid, or 
Dumbledore in this role?  god, it's ridiculous!  i just can't 
get past the fact that Harry's one link to being a *person* first,
with human frailties and emotions and all the !@$# that goes 
along with being a 15-year old kid, is gone. 

> If Sirius had been cleared and Harry had been spending time
> with him, he probably wouldn't have been living with him 
> because of needing to callthe Dursley house home, then I could 
> understand why it was necessary to get 
> rid of Sirius. 

yeah, here's another question i have re: Sirius (forgive me if
it's
already been brought up 321431728 times already, but this 
board is becoming *really* unmanageable at the moment!).  
what are some other thoughts on why JKR felt it was
`necessary' 
to kill him off?  i've thought of the logistical and
plot-momentum 
sort of concerns regarding the difficulty in getting his name 
cleared, as that's clearly the only way he'd be able to play 
an expanded role in both the Order and in Harry's life, but i 
figure that if it had to be done, JKR could find some way of 
doing it.  honestly, the complexity and texture of OOP has 
really raised my opinion of her unbelievable talents as a 
writer, and more specifically, a story-teller, if that makes any 
sense, so .... argh!  the name-clearing and associated 
logistical nightmares can't be the only reason.  i know some 
folks have brought up that Harry "needs" to lose Sirius so he 
can get on with the business of fighting evil w/o any more of 
those pesky personal losses to worry about, but AHHH!  i 
CAN'T buy this!  if it's being used as more of an impetus for 
Harry to once and for all be able to go off and defeat LV, bull, 
he doesn't need that.  he's already got enough ambition to 
be getting on with in this regard.  more thoughts, please!!!  :>

> There has been a lot of discussion about why James and co 
> bullied Severus 
[snip]
> But I wonder if some of it derives from the fact that
> Voldemort was already coming to power. James et al are 
> Gryffindors and therefore the traditional enemies of the 
> Slytherins anyway. The Slytherins would have been distrusted and 
> disliked at this point if the current level of anti-Slytherin
feeling 
> in the WW is anything to go by. So they would have
> been looking for a target [...]

hmm!  i really like this idea.  honestly, while i my *initial*
reaction to what Harry saw in the Pensieve was similar to his 
own horror at what kind of person his father seemed to really 
be, i quickly got over it after realizing what truly horrible things 
any 15-year old kids can really be capable of.  however, i 
hadn't considered the Slytherin/LV gaining power thing, 
which is an excellent point.  similarly, i was truly astounded 
at the realism with which JKR turned Harry into an angry teenager.  
this is the kind of Harry i was HOPING for in the time since 
GoF—it seemed inevitable that he would eventually stop 
handling everything so damned passively, with a few small 
exceptions (his anger in PoA, etc.), and, while it was admittedly 
a teeny bit sudden, i was ecstatic to see the 
anger/bitterness/resentment rear its ugly teenage head!  in 
fact, i was jumping around on my couch as i read, for much 
of the first few chapters.  ;> 

in the same vein, i wasn't nearly as bothered as some folks 
seem to have been about Harry's use of the Unforgiveable 
curse—maybe it  was just that *i* wanted as much revenge on 
Bellatrix as Harry did, and while it is comforting to know that he 
doesn't quite have it in him to actually enjoy inflicting pain,
it 
wasn't in the least surprising that he tried it.   this  leads to 
another question that i've seen brought up a little bit—
what do people think about Harry using Dark magic as part of 
his preparation to defeat LV?  part of me can see him thinking 
he's above getting lured to the  Dark side, and seeing the use of 
dark magic more as a weapon -- needing to really know his 
enemy's tactics to the fullest extent possible to even have the 
remotest of chances against LV. in short, he's gonna need more 
than "guns.  a LOT of guns".   ;>  thoughts??

-elspeth

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