OOP: James( was:Two-way Mirror and other frustrations)

[M.Clifford]

No: HPFGUIDX 63950

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "bibphile" <bibphile at y...> 
wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "fitzchivalryhk" 
> <fitzchivalryhk at y...> wrote:
> > --- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "bibphile" <bibphile at y...> 
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > Yes, but what does that have to do with anything?  James was a 
> > > bully (in fifth year) regardless of Snape.  He "hexed anyone 
who 
> > > annoyed him and "hexed people for fun."  Lots of people, not 
> just 
> > > Snape.  Later, he grew up and became a hero.
> > > 
> > > My argumement was simple.  People remember the man James 
> > became more 
> > > than the boy he was.
> > > 
> > > bibphile
> > 
> > I think it's asking too much for people to forget what the boy 
> James 
> > was. No one forget that Snape had been a Death Eater, and even 
now 
> > when he was (apparently) working for the right side, and had the 
> trust of 
> > Dumbledore, many people still suspect him. 
> > 
> > I think most people who spoke against James here, spoke against 
> the 
> > James (at 15 ) who bullied Snape. Not many people doubted that 
he 
> > became a better man after he graduated from Hogwarts. However, 
the 
> > fact that he became a better man later does not excused him of 
> > bullying Snape before. What I find distrubing was that, quite a 
> few 
> > people tried  to argue that James was a good person (at 15) 
> because 
> > Snape deserved to be bullied, and that was what I cannot agree 
> with.
> > 
> > Fitz
> 
> I wasn't defending James.  Earlier someone asked why people 
(Hagrid, 
> Minerva) thought so highly of James if he'd been a bully.  This 
was 
> my answer.  If you want my opinion on fifth-year James, read my 
> earlier messages.  I make no excuses and fully condem his action.
> 
> bibphile

In defense of what I have said, Snape being a bigot has a lot to do 
with the respect James earned. 
Jame's answer to Lily as to why he taunted Snape on that day 
was "because he exists". IMHO this can mean "because he is a bigot 
that exists".  
James being a bully is obvious. There is no excuse for his attack. 
However, his target, being a feckless supporter of insubstantiated 
hatred and undeserved prejudice, must come in to play to some 
degree. 
We know that Sirius was considered a disgrace to his family for his 
beliefs about non pureblood and halfblood wizards and James was 
doing it to appease Sirius' boredom. To me it smacks clearly of 
James saying, lets do a little bigot punishing then, Sirius. 

No decent person would respect James for being a cruel bully. Agreed.
But, imagine the charismatic rebuttal he would give comments 
on "mudblood filth" throughout his school life. 
Snape wasn't an *innocent* victim. On the day of his memory he was 
already guilty of a cruelty and bullying of his own more insidious 
kind. Hating people for something they cannot change regardless of 
their innermost character. 
James earned a degree of repect for this: his spite was directed at 
someones choice to hate, not merely someones inability to defend 
themself, as was Snapes attack on Lily. For what defense has a 
muggleborn witch against such comments, but a charismatic pureblood 
displaying such characters for the fools that they are.
 
two knuts from Valky