OOP: Housing MMWP,

[Kirstini]

No: HPFGUIDX 65688

Felt that Mimbulus Mimbletonia's post deserved a fully comprehensive 
reply. Apologies, I don't have the books in front of me, so can't 
make exact quotes.

I wrote:
> > Not conclusive, I know, but could PP have achieved such 
popularity 
> > coming from a house which stood against their ideals? Would they 
be 
> > picking on someone from their own house to such an extent in a 
book 
> > where the concerns raised by Hermione and the Sorting Hat about 
> > inter-house rivalry dividing pupils were constructed as a 
central 
> > theme?
 
 
Mimbulus Mimbletonia wrote: 
> When you say PP you mean Peter Pettigrew, right? I recall him 
sitting 
> there and doing nothing while James and Sirius went to pick on 
> Severus.
Hermione, the Sorting Hat and Dumbledore voice those concerns about 
> 16-17 years after the Marauders were actually in Hogwarts.


Me (now): Nope! I mean the PP out of MWPP - ie Prongs and Padfoot. 
Sorry, should have made myself clearer. And while Hermione, DD and 
the Hat might be the instruments JKR uses to voice her concern, I 
was talking about the structure and themes of the *book* "Harry 
Potter and the Order of the Phoenix", and the way in which it 
achieves thematic unity as she flags these concerns up by using 
these characters. Think about what she says in both the Chamber of 
Secrets DVD interview, and the Bloomsbury Albert Hall event - that 
if she wants to put an important piece of information in the text, 
she employs Hermione or Dumbledore - the narrative voice is limited 
here as it tends to come from Harry's point of view.

MM again:
>JKR has never mentioned the Marauders' House(s), except for James', 
and that was in an interview (IIRC).>
 Me: I know, that's why I posted in the first place.

My old post: 
> In PoA, Lupin says "Well, let's drink to a Gryffindor victory 
against Ravenclaw! Not that I'm supposed to take sides, as a  
teacher..." (PoA, Bloomsbury, p182). This suggests to me that were 
Lupin not a teacher, he'd still be supporting Gryffindor - just to 
support his friend James' son? Or because he was one himself? 
Former Hogwartians are notoriously partisan.>
 
And MM again:
>I think that he's supporting Harry. I think that after witches and 
wizards grow up and graduate from Hogwarts, all those House-rivalry 
 issues matter less.>

Me:
I couldn't agree less. The Fat Friar says  "Well, I hope we'll be 
seeing you in Hufflepuff. My old House, you know" in PS. Think of 
how fondly Molly and Bill remember Gryffindor, and of the enourmous 
familial pressures Ron feels to get into Gryffindor, as it is 
expected of him as a Weasley.  

MM:
 >My own, personal opinion is that Lupin is in Ravenclaw. In fact, 
just now I had the thought that instead of just laying on the grass 
and relaxing, he immediately pulls out his book and starts reading, 
and that sort of reminded me of Luna.> 

Me: Yes, but this is the first instance we've heard of Lupin being 
bookish. His DADA lessons in PoA were so different from Umbridge's 
because they were all practical. Indeed, that he teaches DADA as 
opposed to one of the more academic subjects at all would also 
indicate a leaning towards bravery out of all four of the traits, 
not to mention the fact that he has been *bravely* dealing with the 
fact that he's a werewolf since he was nine or ten. Are you sure it 
didn't remind you of Hermione rather than Luna? The sorting hat was 
going to put her in Ravenclaw, but changed its mind and put her in 
Gryffindor instead. 
 
MM: >I think that Wormtail is in Slytherin. Like the Sorting Hat 
says in PS/SS:
"Or perhaps in Slytherin
You'll make your real friends,
Those cunning folk use any means
To achieve their ends." (PS/SS, The Sorting Hat) 
And Peter *is* cunning, isn't he? One has to be very cunning to 
avoid being outed as the spy-for-Voldemort for one whole year 
(according to Sirius in the Shreiking Shack in PoA), while you were 
under Dumbledore's nose who, in the end of OotP says that he is "a 
sufficiently accomplished Legilimens [him]self to know when [he is] 
 being lied to" (OotP, Chapter 37 - The Lost Prophecy).>
 
Me: Aah, but "it takes a special sort of bravery to stand up to 
one's friends", as Dumbledore points out at the end of PS, when 
awarding points to Neville. And when Harry has a dream about the 
Sirius/Pettigrew confrontation before knowing the truth about 
Sirius, he imagines Pettigrew looking "rather like Neville 
Longbottom", which I found rather een-ter-rest-ing... To do what 
Peter does takes guts. Not nice guts, and guts which Phineas 
Nigellus would probably appropriate to Slytherin, ie saving oneself, 
but guts all the same. Peter being in Slytherin is just too obvious. 
I feel that in OoP, with the presentation of Dolores Umbridge, JKR 
takes steps towards a multi-faceted presentation of good and evil -
 "shades of grey", as someone wrote in a post about Snape earlier 
today. The near-mythical Good Slyth will be the next step...
Harry needs to learn that nothing is set in stone. Dolores Umbridge 
is evil, but not a Death Eater. Dumbledore is fallible. Gryffindors 
can go bad.

MM:
>Sirius, IMO is in Hufflepuff. The sorting hat says about 
Hufflepuff: 
 "You might belong in Hufflepuff,
Where they are just and loyal,
Those patient Hufflepuffs are true
 and unafraid of toil[.]" (PS/SS, The Sorting Hat)
We know that Sirius is *very* loyal:
" 'THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED! roared Black. 'DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY 
YOUR FRIENDS. AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!' " (PoA, The Servant 
of  Lord Voldemort).
If Sirius says that he would rather die than betray his friends, 
than that makes him, in my book, a very, very loyal friend indeed. 
Besides, what is his animagus form? A *dog* - which are often 
sappily described as the most loyal friend a man can have (or a 
woman, for  that matter).
A friend of mine pointed out to me that she would hate to see Sirius 
in Hufflepuff, since they are "a lot o' duffers" to quote Hagrid in 
PS. But I think that the same way that one of the things that 
separate the school houses are all those House-prejudices. If you 
are  in Slytherin, than that makes you very, very bad. If you are in 
Hufflepuff, then you're a 'duffer', to be in Ravenclaw means being a 
walking encyclopedia and to be in Gryffindor means that you have to 
be very, very brave.>

Me:I'm a bit confused, as I think this contradicts your earlier 
argument, by which you allot MWPP houses according to their most 
prevalent character traits. And I *really* don't think Sirius was in 
Hufflepuff. Yes, he's very loyal, but so is "True Gryffindor" Harry, 
who would also willingly die rather than betray his friends. And to 
become an animagus by the age of fifteen takes exceptional brains 
and magical prowess, which Hufflepuffs don't tend to be noted for. 
And he *is* "very, very brave". He is. 

Someone earlier up in this thread commented that in OoP, we see that 
Harry didn't know half of the students from other houses until 
meeting them in the Hog's Head, suggesting that there really isn't 
much room for inter-house contact. Therefore, unless Peter, Sirius 
and James were all in the same *dorm* as Lupin, how on earth would 
they have become good enough friends with him to notice that he 
disappeared every full moon?   

Kirstini, pounding the desk in self-righteousness...