How does Winky knowDobby/What V'mort knows/Evil!McGonagall and Alive!Barty Jr

[sevenhundredandthirteen]

No: HPFGUIDX 53485

Bboy_mn:
>So I have to ask you, if the elf was always guarding Junior, then who
>cleaned the house and made dinner? 

Well, keep in mind that Barty Jr was also under his father's 
Imperious Curse all this time. I suspect that in this case Sr was 
just making Jr be exceptionally obedient. He could easily just sit 
there under his invisibility cloak whilst Winky went about doing her 
work. A docile Barty Jr under the Imperious curse doesn't really pose 
much of a problem to cleaning a toilet does it? Seeing as Winky could 
just bring him to whatever household location she was currently 
cleaning. 

(This brings up another related point about the so far very briefly 
mentioned powers of house-elves. If Barty Jr was really under his 
invisibility cloak day and night, should we assume that Winky can see 
through it? Or, is it more probable to be something like what bboy_mn 
suggested- that house-elves have an intuitive power that allows her 
to know where Barty Jr is even without seeing him. It also brings up 
another point- how did Barty Sr see his son to make sure he wasn't 
playing-up?)

bboy_mn wrote:

>Unless elves are able to reproduce monosexually, they had to have 
some
>interaction with Male elves in order to produce baby elves. While, in
this case, we are talking about magical creatures, I must still point
>out the single sex reproduction in the natural world is pretty rare. 
>
>So we have Mother and Grandmother, is it safe to assume that means
>that somewhere there is a Father and a Grandfather?

Yeah, in the House-elf Breeding And Reproduction Faciltiy (B.A.R.F.) 
of course!!! :)
The B.A.R.F. is responsible for pairing elves and producing little 
baby elves. :D

bboy_mn:
>The only thing I'm going to point out here is that the Ministry of
>Magic has an Office of House-Elf Relocation. Don't know how that 
helps
>but I thought I would throw it in.

Yes, I did note that. But, I don't really see how it helps either.

bboy_mn:
>I'm reminded of a very long discussion we had over the term 'Manor'. 
A
>'house' is not as simple as a house; for example, House of Malfoy is
>not the same as Malfoy's house, although Malfoy's house could be
>included in the House of Malfoy. 

"bound to serve one house and one family forever ...' Stress the AND. 
Dobby states them as separate entities. I agree that House and house 
are distinct from one another, and what's more- Dobby's general 
grammar and sentence structure aren't always to be relied upon. But 
there is definitely an 'and.' I suppose it all comes down to 
interpretation.


bboy_mn:
> But I think more likely is that since Malfoys
>and Crouches are both old wizarding families, the may have had a long
>history of association prior to this particulat Malfoy and this
>particular Crouch. On a related point, we don't know how long
>house-elves live, if they live 500 years then Dobby and Winky would
>have had plenty of time and opportunity to get to know each other.

Very true. Although I think it's very in character for Crouch to 
sever any relations with the Malfoys once he sets his mind to being 
Minister for Magic and realises that the Malfoys may tarnish his 
reputation.


I originally wrote:
> --We know Dobby and Winky have kept in contact after Dobby was 
sacked.
> Because Winky knows he's sacked, 

bboy_mn wrote:
>She knows he's been sacked, but we don't know the source of
>that knowledge. She could have heard it from Crouch Sr. 

Also true. But how would Crouch Sr find out? Surely the activities of 
one house-elf wouldn't be all that important to him?

bboy_mn wrote:

> I'm not so much trying to
> dispute your conclusions as offering alternative perspective. 

Yes, thank-you for another perspective. I didn't really mean to write 
it to persuade anyone to favour one particular theory. I hadn't 
really come to any solid conclusions in my own mind to begin with. 
That's why I didn't initially post it when I first wrote it- because 
I truly had no idea.

And on a different point that I stumbled across whilst pondering the 
lives of House-elves. Whilst Voldemort and Wormtail were living at 
the Crouch residence and making Barty Sr go about his day as per 
usual, wouldn't they have unlimited access to all of the trials and 
restricted information regarding Law enforcement from after Voldemort 
was thwarted? And any private diaries Crouch Sr had kept? With Barty 
Sr under the Imperious, surely Voldemort could just ask him to bring 
home a few old reports etc. Hey, the guy was living in noxious gas 
form for many years, and then living abroad with Wormtail for a whole 
year- he's going to want to catch up on what's doing in the world, 
and he has particular interest in who's alive, who's dead, *who's a 
spy.*  What I'm trying to say is that with Voldemort living at the 
Crouch residence with Crouch under the Imperious, he pretty much can 
find out everything he wants from the Ministry of Magic. 

And another, somewhat unrelated, point. For anyone who believes that 
McGonangall is actually evil. If she was evil, couldn't that 
therefore mean that Crouch Jr is still actually alive? Seeing as she 
was the one to guard him after he passed out after the veritaserum 
affair? Surely evil!McGonagall wouldn't let Voldemort's 'most loyal 
servant' be taken away? And then there's the fact that no-one besides 
her actually 'saw' the Dementor kiss him... So, if she is actually 
evil, then I think that Crouch Jr is actually alive, and she just 
made up the story of him being kissed so he could be smuggled out of 
Hogwarts under Dumbledore's nose. I went back to the original Evil!
McGonagall post (39470) but the concensus there is that McGonagall 
wanted Crouch Jr to be kissed and let it happen.

And that's all for now!

~<(Laurasia)>~