how does Winky know Dobby? (long)

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 53469

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "sevenhundredandthirteen"
<sevenhundredandthirteen at y...> wrote:

Preface: How about this one; once a year various wizards and witches
donate the use of their house-elves to organize and throw the annual
Ministry of Magic Christmas Party. (Keep in mind that Barty Jr wasn't
always a prisoner in his own home; that's only been 13 out of the last
33 years)

A large collective wizard's event taking place on neutral territory.

I'm not saying it's true, but it is a reasonably bulletproof theory.

General points on House-Elves-
We don't know the extent of their powers. We do know that so far, only
a house-elf has been able to apparate (or perform an apparation-like
action). That would imply that Elf magical power is very substantial.
I have always believed, although there is no proof in the books, that
elves have telepathic-like powers which would allow them to interact
socially without being in the same place. I also believe, again
admittedly unfounded, that they have a strong intuitive sense that
would allow them to know when and where other elves were, and would
alow them to sense when their master was calling even if they weren't
home at the time. There superior (apparently) apparation abilities
would also allow for fast short term social interaction, and with a
strong intuitive sense, they could know when they were needed at home,
and 'pop' back immediately, giving their master the sense that the elf
had been there the whole time.

What is the point of elf social interaction when elves live to work
not to party? It's possible that even their social interaction could
be for the purpose of improving their ability to serve their masters;
exchanging recipes, cleaning tips, popping in to cover for an elf that
was too sick to work, etc.... So while it's out of character various
types of social interaction aren't impossible to imagine.
-end this part-
 

> ...edited... I thought of every possible way of linking Dobby and 
> Winky as I possibly could. Some are boring (they do their shopping 
> at the same place). ...edited...
> 
> 
> 1. Dobby and Winky do their shopping together.
> ...edited...
> 
> Why it can't be true: 
> Consider these pieces of canon:
> Barty Crouch, Jnr, whilst under Veritaserum (Chapter 35 "Veritaserum.") 
> Says-
> "'I was always with the house-elf. She was my keeper and carer.'"
> And also-
> "'I had not left the house for years.'"
>


bboy_mn:
Truth is a funny thing, even when it's true, it's not always absolute.

So I have to ask you, if the elf was always guarding Junior, then who
cleaned the house and made dinner? I read the implication that Barty
Jr is never left alone, and that whenever Barty Sr is away, the elf is
with him at all times. But the elf has a lots of jobs to do in order
to look after the house. Therefore, I suspect that when Barty Sr was
home to look after Junior, Winky went about her daily chores.

I don't see that as a violation of truth relative to Barty Jr's
statement that you quoted above. For the truth to be exact, he would
have probably gone on for an hour describing the exact details of his
home life and any exceptions to the rules that may have occurred. 

True he does say 'alway with the elf', but truth is relative. There
are general truths and then there are specific detailed truths which
could seem to conflict yet both still be relatively true.
-end this part-

> ...edited...

> 2.) There is a social network for elves (not an exact quote but 
> close enough).

bboy_mn:
Winky served the Crouch house as did her mother and her grandmother.

Unless elves are able to reproduce monosexually, they had to have some
interaction with Male elves in order to produce baby elves. While, in
this case, we are talking about magical creatures, I must still point
out the single sex reproduction in the natural world is pretty rare. 

So we have Mother and Grandmother, is it safe to assume that means
that somewhere there is a Father and a Grandfather?
-end this part-


> 
> 3. The Ministry Of Magic, Department of Regulation and Control of 
> Magical Creatures has regular house-elf meets where they ensure
> house-elves are fulfilling their duties.
> 

bboy_mn:
The only thing I'm going to point out here is that the Ministry of
Magic has an Office of House-Elf Relocation. Don't know how that helps
but I thought I would throw it in.
-end this part-


> George says this about house-elves: "House elves come with big old
> mansions and castle and places like that, you wouldn't catch one in 
> our house."  (CoS, Chapter 2, "Dobby's Warning") It sounds as though
> the house-elf comes with the house. Dobby also says "'The wizard 
> family Dobby serves, sir ... Dobby is a house-elf - bound to serve 
> one house and one family forever ...'" He also makes it clear that 
> he is bound to the property as well as the family. 
> 

bboy_mn:
I'm reminded of a very long discussion we had over the term 'Manor'. A
'house' is not as simple as a house; for example, House of Malfoy is
not the same as Malfoy's house, although Malfoy's house could be
included in the House of Malfoy. When the House of Malfoy moves into a
new mansion, the new mansion becomes the House of Malfoy, and the old
house is just a house. I think Dobby serves one House, and not one house. 
-end this part-


> 
> 7. Business meetings of some description between Crouch and Malfoy.
> The Concept:
> Barty is hosting business meetings at his home which Lucius is 
> attending, and he's bringing his slave with him, letting Dobby and 
> Winky meet on Winky's home turf.
> 
> ...edited...
> 
> 
> 15. The Crouches and the Malfoys are related. (my personal favourite).

bboy_mn:
Well, that's possible. But I think more likely is that since Malfoys
and Crouches are both old wizarding families, the may have had a long
history of association prior to  this particulat Malfoy and this
particular Crouch. On a related point, we don't know how long
house-elves live, if they live 500 years then Dobby and Winky would
have had plenty of time and opportunity to get to know each other.



> 
> 16. It's a flint. JKR didn't realise that when she wrote Winky and 
> Dobby as knowing each other that that also incriminated the Crouches 
> and Malfoys as knowing each other as well.
> 
> *Note: On the nature of Dobby and Winky's relationship.
> 
> --They are obviously good friends.

bboy_mn: well, at least good acquaintances.


> --We know Dobby and Winky have kept in contact after Dobby was sacked.
> Because Winky knows he's sacked, 

BBOY_MN: Show knows he's been sacked, but we don't know the source of
that knowledge. She could have heard it from Crouch Sr. 

> ...edited...
> 
> 
> Whew! Well, that was very long wasn't it!
> 
> ~<(Laurasia)>~

Excellent thought provoking analysis. I'm not so much trying to
dispute your conclusions as offerring alternative perspective. I think
before this series ends we will learn a lot more about Dobby and
house-elves in general. I think Dobby and Neville are the two
background characters that have the greatest potential to step very
much into the foreground.

Just a few thoughts.

bboy_mn