Is Snape unfair with House Points? (WAS Re: Teacher Ratings (Was: Why I hate Hag

[Tom Wall]

No: HPFGUIDX 56750


Lynn wrote:
Oh, a challenge. Well, not much of one since the
first example that came to my mind hasn't been
brought up yet.

In PS p. 104, in their first Potions class, after
Neville had melted the cauldron:
"You - Potter - why didn't you tell him not to
add the quills? Thought he'd make you look good
if he got it wrong, did you? That's another
point you've lost for Gryffindor."

Seems to me that while Snape gave an explanation
it was totally ridiculous for him to do so. How
would Harry know what Neville was doing when he
wasn't working with him?
END QUOTE.

I reply:
A challenge well met! I do agree that this is a lame excuse for 
taking a point off of Gryffindor. However, what strikes me here is 
that Snape says "that's *another* point you've lost for Gryffindor." 

Earlier in the same scene, Harry snidely replies to Snape:

"I don't know," said Harry quietly. "I think Hermione does, though, 
why don't you try her?"
A few people laughed; Harry caught Seamus's eye, and Seamus winked. 
Snape, however, was not pleased.
<snip Snape's definitions>
"And a point will be taken from Gryffindor House for your cheek, 
Potter."
(PS/SS, US paperback, Ch.8, 138)

So, rereading the scene, all Snape really does aside from the remark 
about celebrity (which might also be read as Snape's attempt to show 
the *other* students that celebrity's not as important as they might 
think it is) is ask Harry questions to which Harry doesn't know the 
answers. 

I have had many teachers who start out the year this way. And 
usually, they start with the kid that everyone thinks is the best in 
the class. This gives people confidence that no one's better than 
anyone else. And Snape didn't actually ridicule or insult Harry – he 
simply demonstrated that just because you're famous doesn't mean 
you're the best student in the class.

Now, granted, we know that Harry is actually very concerned about how 
little he knows, and that he's afraid that he'll be the worst student 
in his year. *We* know that. But the other students (except for Ron) 
don't. And the teachers don't, either.

All Snape does is ask questions. It is actually Harry who is 
disrespectful first, with his quip about Hermione.


Lynn wrote:
As for Harry not respecting Snape, well, if I
entered my first class with someone and got
treated as Harry did by Snape, I'd have no
respect for that teacher either. Harry did
nothing but take notes.

I reply:
That's movie contamination, there. Harry's not taking notes in the 
book.


Lynn quoted PS/SS:
PS p. 101 - "Ah, yes," he said softly, "Harry
Potter. Our new - celebrity."

And:
PS p. 102 - Snape's lip curled into a sneer. "Tut, tut - fame clearly 
isn't everything."

I reply:
I think it bears mention here that Snape clearly has issues with 
fame, and famous people who get easy rides with minimum work. He 
definitely had these issues with James Potter, and I believe that 
Snape thinks he's going to stamp out any potential arrogance in Harry 
right off the bat.

And he's not that far off – by PoA, we see that even Fudge gives 
Harry more leeway than would normally be allowed for other students. 

"They've got away with a great deal before now... I'm afraid it's 
given them a rather high opinion of themselves... and of course 
Potter has always been allowed and extraordinary amount of license by 
the headmaster –"
"Ah, well, Snape... Harry Potter, you know... we've all got a bit of 
a blind spot where he's concerned."
(PoA, US paperback, Ch.21, 387)

And Fudge isn't lying – they do have a blind spot where Harry's 
concerned. Harry could have been expelled in CoS for flying the car 
in with Ron, and wasn't. He could have been expelled in PoA for using 
magic during the summer, and wasn't. He could have been expelled in 
PoA for sneaking off to Hogsmeade, and wasn't. And the other students 
know it too. 

Unfortunately, a great citation for this comes through the mouth of 
Draco in GoF, so given that he's a dubious source, I'm sure some will 
question the validity of the perspective:

"So," <snip description of Malfoy's face> "You caught some pathetic 
reporter, and Potter's Dumbledore's favorite boy again. Big deal."
(GoF, US paperback, Ch.37, 729)

Let's face it – Harry *is* Dumbledore's favorite boy. We all know it. 
And the others – both students and teachers - know it too. 

So, to return to the point, Harry's subsequent behavior in the other 
books is something that Snape could predict in the first book. And 
he's out to show Harry that, no matter how much favoritism Dumbledore 
and the other teachers show him, he, Snape, will not be doing that... 
ever, and he doesn't.


Lynn wrote:
Snape hasn't done much to earn any respect and
done lots to lose it. It's also been my
experience that you get what you give. Snape
gives no respect and gets none in return.

I reply:
This reminds me of a funny quote from Band of Brothers – I know that 
that's a military story, and so it isn't a direct parallel, but I 
think it's similar – 

"We salute the rank, Captain Sobel, not the man." – Major Winters

I think it's similar because I believe that that's the level of 
respect that should be accorded teachers. Whether or not you like 
them, you don't show them outward disrespect. Sure, badmouth `em in 
private all you want – but not to other teachers, and not to the 
teacher himself. That's out of line. And Harry reaps what he sows 
with Snape. Harry is disrespectful of him right off the bat. He 
*could* have held his tongue there, and he could have just kept 
saying, respectfully, "I don't know, sir" to Snape's questions. But 
that's not what he did – he replied with sarcasm, thereby proving the 
point Snape was trying to prove – that Harry thinks he's above norms 
of behavior.


Lynn wrote:
As for Dumbledore awarding ridiculous points, I
don't see them as ridiculous. He awarded HRH the
points in PS for doing what the teachers couldn't
- keeping Voldemort from getting the Philospher's
Stone. I think that was a pretty significant
thing to do. As for CoS, well, gee, they found
the Chamber of Secrets, killed the basilisk and
saved Ginny Weasley. Hermione didn't get any
points, Harry and Ron did. Hmm, you would have
awarded maybe 10 points for that? Again, they
did what the teachers couldn't do and because
they did it, Hogwarts didn't have to close. No,
I don't see the points as ridiculous at all.

I reply:
I know, I know. I don't blame you for seeing things this way – this 
is a bone of contention with me, though. ;-)

After having this debate in another thread a few months ago, I've 
lightened up a little bit on the PS/SS achievements. But I haven't 
lightened up on Ron in CoS, because he didn't do anything. 

He didn't figure out what the creature was, he didn't figure out that 
the entrance was in Myrtle's bathroom, he went inside, but after the 
roof collapsed, all he did was dig. I can't see awarding *two-
hundred* points to Ron for digging. And to evaluate whether or not 
two-hundred points apiece is unfair, let's take a look at the totals 
from PS/SS:

Gryffindor: 312
Hufflepuff: 352
Ravenclaw:  426
Slytherin:  472

So, at two-hundred points apiece for Gryffindor, if the totals were 
anything like they were last year (which, I concede, they might not 
be,) then we're talking about a huge differential here. Enormous. Ron 
and Harry combined take in 400 points, which is more than *all* of  
Gryffindor took in the year before? No, that's way over the top – 
especially since all Ron did was dig.
 
But this is one of those things where we'll just have to agree to 
disagree – last time, I don't think that anyone changed sides, after 
a long battle on the issue. 

You either think Dumbledore's points are fair, or you don't. I don't, 
but again, that's just me. ;-)

-Tom