Slytherin's behavior at the GoF final feast (was Re: Dumbledore's awarding of points PS/SS)

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 57081

I (Darrin) wrote: 

> > And I never said that the Slyths thought as one unit. Draco and 
> MANY 
> > others sat down when Dumbledore was praising Harry's courage -- a 
> > courageous act that included bringing back Cedric's body, who the 
> > Slyths allegedly were SO mournful for, expressed by standing up 
> when 
> > everyone else did. 
> 


Meesh: 
> 
> How do you know that they weren't sincere about standing up for 
> Cedric?  I'm not saying that it's certain that they WERE sincere, 
but nowhere in the tone of that scene does JKR hint that they rose 
for  any other reason.  At least from what I can tell.  
> 


Me: 
> > Who is to say the other Slyths just didn't think of it and 
> privately  said, "oh, yeah, good one, Draco?" Or that they WANTED 
to sit down, but didn't have the guts to in front of Dumbledore?
> 

Meesh:
> Who is to say that it has anything to do with fear?  Maybe some 
> people just don't LIKE Harry.  Frankly, if someone I didn't like 
was  praised for...what did Harry do again?  Escape?  I don't know if 
I'd be toasting someone for that, particularly if I didn't like them 
and preferred that they didn't.  
> 

Me: 

I think Harry did a bit more than escape. He duelled with one of the 
most powerful wizards in the world AND got away from grown men and he 
risked his life to bring peace to the Diggory family by getting 
Cedric's body.

And again, they stood up for Diggory BEFORE they found out Voldemort 
was behind it. Once Voldemort was revealed to be behind it, THAT is 
when the Slyths like Draco and MANY others revealed how they felt 
about the matter.

Me:

> > But again, they are calling friend someone who says that. They 
are > no better than the white folks who hid in their homes and 
said, "Well,it's not my place to stop a lynching?" 
> 

Meesh: 
> I don't think this comparison holds up.  Harry doesn't get lynched 
by  Draco Malfoy.  They're rivals, and they get into scuffs, but the 
> books don't show us anything NEAR that cruel going on between them 
> (and what does happen doesn't happen for the same reasons as 
lynching did). They're like two squabbling children.  No one is going 
to get in the middle of that.
> 

Draco has tried to injure Harry during the PoA Quidditch match. Draco 
openly calls for the deaths of those less pure than he is.

Draco hasn't yet committed an evil act, like his dad. But give him 
time. He'll get there. 

Meesh:
> And yes, I think Draco's a nasty little kid, but I don't see Harry 
> holding out an olive branch anytime soon.


Me: So now it's on Harry to make it up? After everything from being 
called "scarhead" to having Draco's dad mock his parents' death to 
having to listen to Draco brag about how "Diggory was just the first" 
to all the times Draco has tried to get him in trouble? It's on HARRY 
to make the first move? Give unto me a break.


Me:  
> > Understandable that they would be afraid? Absolutely. Admirable? 
> > Definitely not.
> 

Meesh:

> I think it's more likely that the other Slytherins simply don't 
care > about Harry (or Draco).  Many people are apathetic about what 
goes on  around them, as long as it doesn't directly affect their 
lives.  What goes on between Harry and Draco/Crabbe/Goyle is really 
not the other Slytherins' business, unless something truly horrible 
is going on.   And there's nothing wrong with this non-interference, 
considering how  little Harry cares for them.  
> 

Again, it's on Harry to reach out to the Slyths to get them to do the 
decent thing and smack Draco in the back of the head and tell him to 
shut up. Well, since the Slyths can't think for themselves, 
apparently, I suppose that's true.

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to remain silent. 
That's MLK's quote.

I'll add my own. All it takes for evil to flourish is for cowards to 
do what comes naturally.

Meesh: 
> I don't like the "either you're with us or against us" 
argument...it  doesn't leave a place for people who don't agree with 
either side.   Or people who don't care.  If you agree with 
Voldemort,  you're "bad."  If you disagree, you're "good."  If you 
don't agree with either of them and won't choose a side, are you 
bad?  I don't think so.
>  

Me: Yeah, if you agree with someone advocating genocide of muggle-
borns YOU'RE BAD! I said it. I'm proud to feel that way. 

People have to take a stand at some point. And if a wizard is not 
willing to stand against genocide, then what is he willing to stand 
against?

Meesh:
> > Who picks the Slyths? The essence of Salazar Slytherin himself, 
the same guy who despised what he felt as a lower class so much that 
he left behind a monster to kill them.
> 
> The Sorting Hat places kids based on the traits the Founders prized 
> in their students (I think).  Slytherins are ambitious.  That 
doesn't necessarily make them Muggle-haters.  
> 

Me: 
Show me a Slyth who isn't and then we'll talk. Show me a Slytherin 
who is part Muggle and then I'll buy it. As of now, we have no 
evidence that any of them aren't pureblood.


Me:
> >And the facts are that, other than 
> > Snape's conversion to Dumbledore's side, we have no concrete 
> examples > > of a Slytherin doing anything decent, and Snape seems 
to be taking  > out that decent act on any Gryffindor within snarling 
distance.
> 

Meesh:

> We also have no concrete examples (that I can think of) of any kids 
> other than Draco's cronies doing anything indecent (excluding 
> Quidditch...everyone seems to get a bit extreme when it comes to 
that 
> sport).  The actions of a couple of kids shouldn't determine how 
the entire House is viewed.
> 

Me: 

Flint - participating in trying to sabotage Harry
Pansy - gossipy and catty and trying to bring down Hermione
Millicent - physically attacking Hermione

And again, WHERE are the rest of the Slyths who are so outraged by 
this? 

And while there is extreme behavior during Quidditch, only the 
Slytherins are without honor. Cedric tries to give up a victory 
because of Dementor interference. Harry refuses to slam into Cho, 
even though she's blocking his path and it's a legit move to knock 
someone out of the way when they do that. 

Bravery is worth more than cunning.

Darrin