[HPforGrownups] Re: Neville/Memory Charms

[elfundeb]

No: HPFGUIDX 57107

Oooh!  Not just one, but two of my favorite topics rolled into one!

> Kelly wrote:
> 
> >Here's a scenario.  He's home at that time and hears (and perhaps
> > sees) everything.  <snip Benevolent Memory Charm theory>
> 
And Cindy responded:

> But . . . but why would MoM care about little Neville and his 
> pathetic little nightmares.  The Longbottoms' attack caused a "wave 
> of fury."  There was "great pressure" to catch the culprits.  So why 
> would MoM mess around with some tyke's memory when there are wicked 
> DEs who will stop at nothing, still running around loose.
> 
Why, because they have something to hide!

Cindy continued:
> 
> They put a *Reverse Memory Charm* on Neville!  This helps him finger 
> the Pensieve Four, although he would otherwise be too young! 

Nope!  But Kelly's half-right.  I agree that Neville's suffering from a super-strong Memory Charm, but there was nothing benevolent about it.  Neville saw *way* too much, might even have been tortured himself, and someone didn't want him talking about it.  Ever.  And the Pensieve Four are just four folks in a large crowd of suspects awaiting questioning, which includes various and sundry MOM employees (disgruntled and otherwise), and even Neville's own relatives, like Gran, maybe, or <gasp> Neville's own parents.  Because maybe Frank did crack and it was imperative that nobody learn about it.  (Hey, maybe Gran's responsible for everyone's amnesia!)

Sure, they're gruesome theories.  But that's how I earned my FEATHERBOA, which I still wear proudly.

Jaimee theorized that Neville was not at home when Frank's torturers struck: 

> So probably a great clue as to whether or not Neville was home during 
> his parent's attack is to pay attention to how he reacted to the 
> dementors on the train--Ch. 5 PoA Hardback US edition...
> 
> OK. Soon after Harry comes to when the dementor is sent away, "Harry 
> looked around the bright compartment. Ginny and Neville looked back 
> at him, both very pale." [snip]
> 
> Continuing on...later texts Neville comments on the Dementors. He 
> says, "It was horrible...did you feel how cold it got when they came 
> in." Neville makes no mention to hearing or remember anything unhappy 
> from his past. 

[snip]
> 
> So...my guess would be that Neville WAS NOT home when his parents 
> were tortured. If he were, he would've felt as much of the dementors 
> effect as Harry. Probably what made him look so "pale" is visiting 
> his parent in St. Mungos, seeing the state they're in, and knowing 
> what put them there.
> 
I suppose it *could* mean that Neville wasn't home.  But that doesn't explain Neville's general behavior.  A better explanation, IMO, is that he has memories of torture buried underneath that Memory Charm but like so much else inside his brain, he can't retrieve them.  Why else put him into that scene?  Neville wasn't sitting in the compartment with the Trio.  He and Ginny arrived just in time for the Dementor's arrival.  I think Neville was included in that scene solely for the purpose of telling us that the Dementors can't break through the shield on Neville's memories -- after all, it seems rather pointless to put him in the scene just so we could learn he was out for the evening with Gran.  Where's the Bang in that?  <g> 
> 

Laura observed, regarding the effect of the Memory Charm on Lockhart: 

I always found it interesting that once he'd forgotten 
> that he was supposedly this big, famous and handsome wizard, Lockhart 
> turned out to actually be a modest, humble, decent guy. (IMHO)  He 
> says something along the lines of "I suspect I was horrible!" when he 
> is informed that he's actually a teacher.  Apparently he was a nice 
> guy underneath it all who was just horribly corrupted by fame 
> inflating his big head.  JKR really was thorough on that lesson. =)  


Very interesting observation, though I don't quite agree with the conclusion.  As Kelly suggested, Memory Charms seem to work on the brain in some fashion.  I don't know if Lockhart was really a nice guy once all the self-promotion was stripped away; I think it's more likely that the Memory Charm altered his personality by stripping out the braggadocio and leaving in its place a half-empty shell.  We have real-life examples (which I know only anecdotally) of people who suffer brain injuries that alter the victims' personalities, often making the victims very difficult to deal with.  Perhaps a Memory Charm does the reverse -- it makes their personalities more bland and accepting, because they cannot pull together and process information sufficiently well to find the talents that are hidden within.  That seems to explain Neville rather well.  He, like Lockhart after his mishap, seems to assume that he has no talent, even though his magical ability shows from time to time in ruined cauldrons and other mishaps.
> 
backstagemagic (BM) wrote, about Frank Longbottom:

> Also, as revealed by Sirius to Harry (GoF, "Padfoot Returns" 
> chapter), we get a clear picture of Crouch Sr's impunity as Head of 
> the Department of Magical Law Enforcement: 
> 
> "The Aurors were given new powers - powers to kill rather than 
> capture, for instance.  And I wasn't the only one who was handed 
> straight to the dementors without trial.  Crouch fought violence with 
> violence, and authorized the use of the Unforgivable Curses against 
> suspects.  I would say he became as ruthless and cruel as many on the 
> Dark Side."

[snip]
> 
> Whether or not Frank Longbottom himself was guilty of such is unknown 
> to us, . . . 
> 
But for Frank to be guilty of the kind of abuse of power that Sirius speaks of raises very interesting possibilities for Neville's development, in light of the incongruity between what the real Frank Longbottom would have been like and the image of the martyr that Neville has grown up with.  

In fact, I think there is a gold mine of Bangy secrets from the first Voldemort era in the family background of many, if not all, of the major child characters -- that will be revealed in the coming books.  And that one of the character development issues will revolve around how these characters cope with those revelations.

As Jaimee pointed out, Harry has been steadily increasing his ability to retrieve critical early memories, and Dumbledore has been slowly increasing Harry's store of background information (Snape's been helping, too, but in a more negative way).  In GoF, Ron asked for on several occasions -- and was given -- more information about the Voldemort era, which will help him when the Weasley family secrets (think age gap and susceptibility to Imperius) are revealed.  All of these tidbits of information will help them when big revelations are made.

Unlike Harry and Ron, Neville has neither friends and relatives who are willing to tell him the truth bit by bit nor does he have the capability of retrieving his own memories as Harry does.  Instead, Gran is perpetuating a certain image of Frank that may not hold up to investigation.  We are told that Gran takes Neville to visit them during the holidays.  That's a bit like taking a child to a holy shrine to see the holy relics.  Gran harps regularly to Neville about how he should be upholding the family honor. But none of this introduces Neville to the real Frank & Mrs. Longbottom; they are lost and have been replaced with the larger-than-life Martyred Auror. Fortunately for Gran, nobody wants to talk about the uglier aspects of the Voldemort era.  Unfortunately, now that Voldemort has returned it has become imperative that everyone learn the truth, so Neville, unlike Harry and his friends, faces the prospect of learning the truth about Frank in such a way that he is unable to cope with it.  

Tom Wall offered:

> So, what gets me most about these is that, as each book progresses, 
> we have more and more references to the Memory Charms, and we learn 
> more and more about what they do, how they're cast, and what can go 
> wrong with them. It seems to me to be an ominous case of 
> foreshadowing, and I'm dreading with certainty the page in a future 
> book when one of these spells is cast on a character we know and care 
> about - who could cast the charm and why, what would our character 
> feel like, and what could possibly be the results? Could this person 
> be damaged permanently? Shuddering at the thought...
> 
I think enough characters have already has been damaged.

Can Neville recover?  I don't think so.  The example of Bertha Jorkins suggests that Neville has little prospect of recovery.  Breaking a Memory Charm seems to involve even more brain damage than casting the charm does.  

Moreover, notwithstanding that the elder Longbottoms are still alive, I'm not expecting them to somehow recover their memories, because I see Frank & Mrs. Longbottom's condition -- dead to Neville and yet not dead -- as a companion image to Neville's condition.  Both represent a past that has been irretrievably lost.  

Then again, I think Neville's parents are suffering from Memory Charms, too.

Debbie

A summary of the major Memory Charm theories, as well as the meaning of FEATHERBOAS, can be found at Hypothetic Alley:

http://www.hpfgu.org.uk/faq/hypotheticalley.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]