Slytherin Stereotypes WAS Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore's awarding ...

Fri May 9 03:04:28 UTC 2003

No: HPFGUIDX 57409

From: "darrin_burnett" <bard7696 at aol.com>
To: <HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 9:26 PM
Subject: Slytherin Stereotypes WAS Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore's
awarding ...

> > Kelly:
> >
> > A member of the Trio has not done any of these things.  However,
> since we
> > are talking about Gryffindors and Slytherins, I would like to bring
> up the famous prank pulled by Sirius on Snape, which had the
> potential to be either fatal or majorly life-changing (two werewolves
> at Hogwarts).   The prank was initiated by a Gryffindor on a
> Slytherin.  Granted, a Gryffindor risked his life to save the
> Slytherin from the potentially harmful prank, but Gryffindors are not
> above reproach either.  Arguments can be made for and against
> Sirius's motives in telling Snape how to get past the Whomping Willow
> and giving him the chance to see Werewolf!Lupin.  I say the same
> > arguments could be made for Draco's motives in the dementor prank.
>
Darrin:
> You rested my case by acknowledging James' stopping Snape.
>
> Do you see a Slytherin risking his life to stop Draco, Crabbe, Goyle
> and Flint from doing what they did? How about a Slyth standing up to
> Draco when he goes on a "Mudbloods must die" rant?
>
No, I admit I did not.

> I'm not going to justify what Sirius did, BUT, he did not force Snape
> to go down to the Whomping Willow, did he? Certainly, he had a good
> idea how Snape would react, but all he did was point and Snape,
> blinded by jealousy and hate, followed, trying to get the Mauraders
> in trouble.
>
> (Parenthetically, just how STUPID is Snape? One of your greatest
> enemies at school tells you to go inside the Whomping Willow and you
> GO without any kind of protection? I mean, really. It's a good thing
> Snape knew hexes and curses, because he was a gullible little git.)

I've been thinking the same thing.  Snape may be book-smart, but he seems to
be lacking in the common sense department.  Either that, or he became
blinded by his passions like he was at the end of PoA.
>
> Now, Sirius had a pretty good idea what Snape would do, so he is
> certainly not blameless.
>
> But again, I do think there is a difference between suggesting to
> someone a way they can fall into a trap and dressing up as a dementor
> to try and make someone fall off a broom.
>
Only a little bit of difference.  As we both have agreed, Sirius could be
pretty sure that Snape would take the bait.  If Snape takes the bait (which
we know he does), he is going to face a fully grown werewolf.  When that
happens, he will either be ripped to pieces by it or be bitten by it.
Unless he happens to be quick enough to come up with the right hex/curse to
stop Lupin before he can reach him.  Granted, what precisely will happen in
this case is not as well-defined as Draco's little stunt, but none of the
alternatives, except the lower odds one of Snape actually being able to stop
Lupin without killing him, are much good for Snape, either.  I really don't
see much difference between the two pranks.  The major difference, in my
mind, is that Sirius might truly not have been aware of all the risks for
Snape, perhaps figuring Snape would get the scare of his life.  Draco, we
can be sure, did figure that Harry would freak out again, although it can be
argued that he was just trying to distract him from gettiing the snitch.  I
don't think Draco would have shed any tears had Harry fallen off the broom
again and injured himself.

>
> > Darrin:
> >
> > Even the usually  gregarious twins won't acknowledge Cedric when
> > they're about to take the Portkey to the Quidditch World Cup, and
> > over a defeat in  Quidditch from the prior year? Please.
> >
> > Kelly (me):
> >
> > That was pretty lame.  Another reason I am so sick of the House
> rivalries. Poor Cedric took so much crap from the Gryffindors that
> entire year because the Hufflepuffs beat them at Quidditch the
> previous year.
>
> The spiteful side of me hopes that those people who gave him crap
> that year feel really bad now.  I do exempt Harry from this because
> he seemed to get the point at the end when he offered to share the
> Cup with Cedric.  Plus Harry is going to feel bad about Cedric's
> death anyway.
> >
>
Darrin:

> I just flipped through all of GoF leading up to the Goblet of Fire
> and in the chapters up through the first task, when there is a
> general easing of tension.
>
> I can find no reference to any Gryffindor giving Cedric grief. The
> closest we come is to Fred and George not being overly talktative,
> which is weak, to say the least.

Ok, maybe I worded that badly.  But they still said some pretty mean things
about him and didn't seem to want to give him a chance simply because of the
Quidditch match the previous year.  This attitude annoyed me, which prompted
my comment.
>
> Pg 297: Harry didn't want to talk to Cedric in front of them
> (referring to sixth-year friends of Cedric's) they were among those
> who had been quoting Rita Skeeter's articles at him every time he
> went near them.
>
> This was just before Harry, well before the fair play you credit him
> with in the maze, told Cedric about the dragons. I think he got
> the "point" well before you give him credit for it.
>
I got the impression he wanted to help Cedric in the earlier trial because
he felt bad that everyone else had knowledge of the event and Cedric didn't.
He didn't think it was fair.  I see it as a little more of Harry's sense of
fair-play than a true bridging of House rivalry.  It was a beginning of
that, though, but I don't think Harry was quite there yet.  I see the
Triwizard Cup as the actual big step here, putting aside House affiliation
and doing it for Hogwarts.

> So, if you can find for me all the grief the Gryffs should feel bad
> about now that Cedric is dead, I'll listen, but I don't see where it
> was. If anything, a hell of a lot of people -- including the Slyths,
> but don't make me laugh -- owe Harry some apologies.
>
See above.  And I don't see any apologies from the Slytherins forthcoming,
either.

Kelly Grosskreutz
http://www.idcnet.com/~ivanova