Lily Evans Potter relationship to Voldemort

[darrin_burnett]

No: HPFGUIDX 57973

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "vivamus42" <YahooGroups at T...> 
wrote:
> This is my first post, so please forgive me if it is in the wrong 
> place.
> 

Welcome. Looks like it's in the right spot to me.


> Canon: When Voldemort went to kill Harry, he had just killed 
James.  
> Lily knew he was there to kill Harry.  Voldemort told Lily to stand 
> aside.  When she didn't obey him right away, he told her to stand 
> aside *again.*  When she didn't stand aside after (at least) two 
> warnings, he killed her, then tried to kill Harry.

This is a classic case of two views of the same canon. Where you see 
two warnings as being a real effort to move Lily (and to be fair, it 
was probably more than what he usually did), I think it was a pretty 
poor effort if he really wanted to kill Harry without killing her.

I think he could have used Crucio to paralyze her with pain (or that 
body bind thing first-year Hermione could do, for that matter), 
Banishing to slam her into the wall, Summoning to pull Harry to him, 
the ropes from the wand thing Snape uses, Imperius curse to force her 
to move (given Harry's aptitude for resisting it, though, this 
probably wouldn't have been all that effective) and probably a dozen 
other methods I'm not thinking of.

This indicates that if he had a reason for wanting to spare her, it 
was a flimsy and easily discarded reason (which gives more credence 
to the "save her for me, Master" bit from one of his followers. What 
does V-Mort care about his followers' playthings?)

> Lily was Head Girl at Hogwarts, and was described by someone 
> (McGonagall?) as being one of the finest witches of the age.  That 
> may have been simply a comment on Lily's moral qualities, or it may 
> have been a comment on her magical abilities.  Either way, she was 
no 
> slouch as Head Girl.
 
That is true, but we're also talking about her opponent being the 
brightest student ever at Hogwarts AND with at least 40 years more 
experience. James was no slouch either and he died pretty quickly.

 Just because V is powerful doesn't mean he 
> is immune to attack.

No, he certainly isn't immune, but in PoA, Harry's memories, spurred 
by the dementor, indicate Lily wasn't attacking.

pg 134 UK (Grim Defeat)
"Not Harry, please no, take me, kill me instead--"

Later on the page. "Not Harry! Please... have mercy... have mercy..."

Obviously we don't know for sure that this is what really happened, 
but I tend to believe this is Harry's subconscious memories, and they 
are fairly accurate.
 
And in the first film, the James and Lily death scene, which Lexicon 
(I believe) considers canon because JKR wrote it, Lily wasn't 
attacking.

Possibly the sacrifice counter-charm needed Lily to be a non-violent 
resister here. I don't know.

But I don't believe V-Mort would have had a reason to think he was in 
great danger and needed to kill her to survive. That indicates a more 
deliberate and cold-blooded act in killing her.


> That's all been gone over before, though.   What just struck me is 
> that from V's POV, V must have *trusted* that she wouldn't blast 
him, 
> after watching him kill her husband and baby.  V is definitely 
> maniacally obsessed with gaining power, but he is no fool.   There 
> HAD to be a reason why he would trust that Lily wouldn't kill him.
> 
> I can think of only two explanations for V to reach that conclusion 
> (that Lily wouldn't kill him).  One is that there is a blood 
> relationship between them, and the other is that something else 
> created a magical bond between them, that would make Lily most 
> unlikely to kill V.  A previous romantic interest most certainly 
> would *not* do it.

But again, I think he killed her awfully quickly, considering what 
other options must have been at his command.
  
 
> That leaves a blood relationship as the most likely candidate I see.

One more thing. For this to work, it has to be not only a blood 
relationship, but a special one. Remember, V-Mort killed his father 
and grandparents easily enough.  

> Any other ideas?
> 

Darrin
-- No other ideas, but got any good band names, Vivamus?