[HPforGrownups] Harry's Sacrifice. / Sorting and Character Traits

[Koticzka]

No: HPFGUIDX 58801

SORTING

elfundeb wrote:
>>My theory is that the Hat doesn't simply try to figure out which
characteristic is most dominant, or try to get a mix in each house.  Rather,
it looks to which house will best help the individual recognize and develop
those traits.  Hermione doesn't need any help sharpening her intellect, but
she underestimates her own bravery (as in her speech to Harry in PS/SS
before she drinks the potion).  Ron has significant fears, the biggest one
of which, in my book, is his fear of failure.  What better place than
Gryffindor to help him come to grips with that fear?<<

****Koticzka's question:
Would Slytherin House be an exception? What kind of features do they lack
that would lead to them all being gathered together? Was the Hat's policy to
enhance one's personality?

Taking into consideration that the Sorting Hat has much more sense than
anyone else and is fully or at least partly conscious of its choices and
their consequences, my theory is that the Hat will save Hogwarts by
executing a subtle plan and ignoring students basic personality for a
greater good.  However, I am open to hearing other opinions, and I will
consider them with curiosity.

HARRY'S SACRIFICE

If you risk something, it means you are ready to sacrifice it. An additional
condition for sacrifice is that you must be conscious of what you are
risking.  I do not intend to discuss the definition of sacrifice, just
making a short point to clarify my opinion.

MmeMalkin wrote:
>>I agree.  Sending someone else to their death is a command decision. (A
Star Trek NG episode comes to mind, where Deanna Troi was in officer
training and was tested on her ability to send a crewmate on a
suicideassignment.)<<

***Koticzka's comment:
As I do not know German, I am not sure whether this was also the subject of
another Star Trek episode I happened to watch, where Captain Piccard was
thrown by Dr Q (???) into three different continua and in each of them the
only solution to save the world / space / continuum was to sacrifice the
ship with the crew.

Considering Harry's ability for sacrifices, I cannot stop thinking of this
situation, where the only solution is really to sacrifice someone's life.
And no sacrifice would be bigger for him than to sacrifice something that is
not his, like someone else's life.

Being on your own is quite easy especially for a person who has an
overdeveloped sense of responsibility... Do not take this negatively, but I
have a hard time finding people who are responsible instead of those who
FEEL responsible.  These two things are not the same.

rayheuer3 wrote:
>> Healed and healed and healed again. <<

***Koticzka's comment:
Yes, and it is only Harry who is hurt. Even Ron as a victim in the chess
game was not Harry's choice to sacrifice, but Ron's own choice. So it is
still not THE sacrifice we all feel he will have to make.

Have at least some of you seen "Sophie's Choice" with Meryl Streep? I
wonder, would children understand and appreciate Harry's choice?
The truly painful wounds are the invisible ones.

Ray Heuer again:
<<Harry takes risks, yes.  But with the sure and certain
knowledge that whatever ills may befall him will be set right.  Which means
he doesn't really "risk" anything.>>

AnneMehr responded:
>>How do you see so much of that assurance in the books? <<

**Koticzka's rambling:
I just cannot resist.  Sacrifices made by Harry are cheapened by any sort of
prize, like Dumbledore's points for the Gryffindors. That might not change
Harry's attitude, or make the choice less painful.  For the reader, though,
it might change a lot, especially when the reader is not eager or conscious
enough to consider circumstances in the world where the prize will not be
given. How can we talk of any kind of sacrifices then?

Annemehr also wrote:
>>The only "sacrifice" I can think of, is when Wormtail cuts off his own
hand for Voldemort's potion.  In this case, he is sacrificing one hand to
save his whole life, so I'm not sure this counts. And then, he *was*
promised the silver hand afterwards. ;-)<<

***Koticzka comments:
There is no way for me to prove my point - but (omitting the details of that
particular bargain),Wormtail's sacrifice seems quite clear and tangible (how
very touching). I do not mean to make Wormtail into a  hero, no way! My
thought is that it is something we all can feel shuddering and shivering in
our bones.

Risking one's own life comes naturally in stories like this, and this is why
the reader might not find it as shocking or painful.  Everybody knows that
(usually) there is a happy ending.  There is nothing to indicate that JKR
will deviate from this standard. What could have been felt as really painful
was the loss of the Cup.  The heroes cannot lose their lives, as it is still
a fairy tale, but there is no such certainty about the Cup. The farther we
go, the more surprising the stories are. But they still keep to the usual
standards from the very beginning to the very end.

So, reading the fairy tale, one expects some common events - like life
risking adventures. From a kid's point of view, of course. Grownups, as we
are (supposed to be), spot the problem differently, as our priorities are in
different places (whether these are the proper priorities is a different
question).

Darrin commenting on one of my previous posts reminded me of Harry's words
to Ron that if they failed "there would be no Qudditch Cup!"  The little one
WAS actually conscious of priorities. Whether he was conscious of the
danger, risk, and possible sacrifice - that is another question to consider,
with absolutely no answer, even in all five books.  A good psychologist
could not be sure, either.

Let's try to review a kid's point of view. Risking one's life is only a
fairy-tale standard, and thus would be acceptable. But the Cup is another
story.  Think about the choice to buy bread or a doll. One has to have bread
and it is beyond the capabilities of most children's perception
(unfortunately, not every child) to have nothing to eat. Not having a doll,
on the other hand, is something unique, a real risk, which CAN happen in
child's mind (think about Hermione's "We could be killed or even worse -
expelled").

Then again, in our adult world, the greater risk is not connected with
ourselves, but rather with our beloved. We do not think, "let me not be ill,
I do not want to suffer" but, "let me not be ill - otherwise what will my
family do?  My children will suffer, who will take care of them?" or, "Take
me instead. Let him live happily".   We consider the real disaster to be the
pain of our beloved.  This is what we cannot stand, and we sacrifice
ourselves rather than allowing it.  And still, until we do face the pain, it
will stay "untouchable" though obvious.

So JKR should probably create three-dimensional sacrifice - that of one's
own life, one's friends (not yet, but perhaps in the future), and more
tangible prizes like Cups. And perhaps the bigger sacrifice might be to
endanger someone like Snape, rather than Ron, who, as a friend, would be
expected to follow his friend and risk as much as Harry? To cause the death
of someone that Harry has no right to ask for
anything, nor to expect anything from, as they have nothing in common
personally (in spite of saving Harry's life from time to time)?

Darrin asks what the point is in here.
***Koticzka's suggestion: It is an auction - how much Harry will have to
bear by the end of the seventh book.

Koticzka
How can you hurt a man who has nothing?
Give him something broken.


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