Harry's Sacrifice. / Sorting and Character Traits

[annemehr]

No: HPFGUIDX 58817

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Koticzka" <koticzka at w...> 
wrote:
> SORTING
> 
> elfundeb wrote:
> >>My theory is that the Hat doesn't simply try to figure out which
> characteristic is most dominant, or try to get a mix in each house. 
 Rather,
> it looks to which house will best help the individual recognize and 
develop
> those traits.  Hermione doesn't need any help sharpening her 
intellect, but
> she underestimates her own bravery (as in her speech to Harry in 
PS/SS
> before she drinks the potion).
<snip>
> 
> ****Koticzka's question:
> Would Slytherin House be an exception? What kind of features do they 
lack
> that would lead to them all being gathered together? Was the Hat's 
policy to
> enhance one's personality?
<snip>

Annemehr:
But Hermione didn't *lack* bravery.  It was perhaps undeveloped, or 
rather say not fully developed (after all, she hadn't had that much 
opportunity to excercise it up till the sorting, as far as we know), 
or, as Debbie says, she only underestimates it.

I just think the hat puts students into the house which would best 
help them develop their talents, whether evident or latent, and with 
no regard to keeping the numbers even.  This is the only explanation, 
IMO, which fulfills the school's responsibility to the *students.*

> 
> HARRY'S SACRIFICE
> 
<snipping>
> 
> Considering Harry's ability for sacrifices, I cannot stop thinking 
of this
> situation, where the only solution is really to sacrifice someone's 
life.
> And no sacrifice would be bigger for him than to sacrifice something 
that is
> not his, like someone else's life.

Annemehr:
True. This would indeed be unbearable for Harry.  

A short while ago, there was a thread going on discussing whether, for 
thematic reasons, Harry might need to *fail* at something important, 
since he hasn't so far.  The most prominent conlusion reached at that 
time was that some action of his would result in the loss of someone's 
life.  However, if Harry is to have a failure, I think you might have 
hit on just what that might be -- the failure to make just this 
sacrifice of someone else's life when it is needed.  On the other 
hand, I think you will get some argument from the list about whether 
he actually *should* do such a thing.  Personally, I'm not so sure 
either way and will have to think about it some more.

[Sorry I can't point you to the "failure" thread, but if I bring up 
another window in my computer, this one will reset and I will lose 
what I have written so far.  I didn't realize I was going to cite it 
until just now.  Maybe one of the priciples in that discussion can 
help out, if this point ends up being of interest.]
> 
<snip>
> 

> **Koticzka's rambling:
> I just cannot resist.  Sacrifices made by Harry are cheapened by any 
sort of
> prize, like Dumbledore's points for the Gryffindors. That might not 
change
> Harry's attitude, or make the choice less painful.  For the reader, 
though,
> it might change a lot, especially when the reader is not eager or 
conscious
> enough to consider circumstances in the world where the prize will 
not be
> given. How can we talk of any kind of sacrifices then?

Annemehr:
I never really thought much about those end-of-the-year points before, 
and even though I read the posts about them, I was never very worked 
up about it, but now I wonder if you haven't come upon another theme 
of the series.

First, why the point system at all (discussed already at greater 
length)?  Why give this type of reward for *anything* the students do? 
 Shouldn't they do their schoolwork for the sake of learning, not for 
House Points?  Shouldn't they be well behaved because it's right?  
Shouldn't they even play Quidditch for the sake of the sport and even 
just the Quidditch cup without regard to the House Cup?

I suppose the answer is that the young people need an extra, visible 
incentive to do what's right: study, play well, condsider how your 
actions affect other people (i.e. the rest of your House).

However, you are right that the points Harry et al get at the end of 
PS/SS and CoS seem to be disconnected, somehow, with the reasons for 
their heroic actions.  What does the House Cup have to do with saving 
Ginny Weasley's life?

Ah, but maybe JKR agrees with you!  Look what happens next.

In PoA, Pettigrew is spared and Sirius and Buckbeak are saved, and 
Dumbledore holds these actions in high esteem ("Why so miserable, 
Harry?" he said quietly.  "You shold be very proud of yourself after 
last night." PoA, ch. 22).  Harry does not receive any points for any 
of this.  Of course, he can't really, as it is all a secret, but 
neither do points seem to matter at all to either Harry or Dumbledore. 
 Gryffindor does win the House Cup because of Quidditch anyway, so you 
hardly notice the departure from the first two books.

Okay, so now consider GoF.  Harry "wins" the TWT and the thousand 
Galleons prize money.  Of course he shouldn't have even been in the 
tournament, and he had help with the tasks (as did all the champions), 
but who would seriously say he didn't earn the prize?  And yet he is, 
understandably, horrified by it.  He has seen murder done, has been 
tortured and horribly used and nearly murdered himself, and Fudge 
gives him 1000 Galleons? 

I would be surprised if House Points are ever again a driving force 
for Harry.
> 
> Annemehr also wrote:
> >>The only "sacrifice" I can think of, is when Wormtail cuts off his 
own
> hand for Voldemort's potion.  In this case, he is sacrificing one 
hand to
> save his whole life, so I'm not sure this counts. And then, he *was*
> promised the silver hand afterwards. ;-)<<
> 
> ***Koticzka comments:
> There is no way for me to prove my point - but (omitting the details 
of that
> particular bargain),Wormtail's sacrifice seems quite clear and 
tangible (how
> very touching). I do not mean to make Wormtail into a  hero, no way! 
My
> thought is that it is something we all can feel shuddering and 
shivering in
> our bones.

Annemehr:
You are absolutely right.  Wormtail cutting his hand off is no small 
thing at all.  Even Harry feels it (and so did I).

In Colorado recently, there was a hiker whose arm got trapped behind a 
boulder that had shifted.  After five days, he cut off his own arm to 
save his life, and everyone *knows* this was a very brave thing to do! 
Actually, everyone knows it was amazing.  I just wasn't sure whether 
Wormtail's action would qualify as a true sacrifice within the story. 
Maybe it does, and it was no small feat in any case!
<snip>
> 
> Darrin asks what the point is in here.
> ***Koticzka's suggestion: It is an auction - how much Harry will 
have to
> bear by the end of the seventh book.
> 
Annemehr:
Too much, I'm afraid.  Can this really end happily?  Bittersweet is 
what I'm hoping for now, hoping it will not be an out-and-out tragedy.