Harry's point of view (was: A Harry Failure)

[Melody]

No: HPFGUIDX 59012

DrMM wrote:
>But they could have told a teacher or Percy that they didn't think
>Hermione heard the announcement. Instead, they rushed off to find
>her, not considering that they might run into the troll. Yes, running
>in to save Hermione was brave & noble and all that ... It was also
>incredibly dangerous and they certainly didn't consider THAT when
>they decided to go after Hermione.

All they were going to do was run and warn Hermione.  They did not
expect to find the troll there.  Why should they?  Hogwarts is a big
school, and the troll was rumored to be in the dungeon at that moment
since Quirrell ran into the Halloween celebration.  Dumbledore did not
seem to think it was needed for the children to run to their
dormitories.  Well, that is a bit unfair.  Running of hundreds of
children will not help any situation.  A calm filing of students
behind a "competent" prefect was the safest way to protect everyone.
But I am getting off track.

When Harry and Ron broke from their line, they thought it was the
better thing to do.  If they had not, they did believe Hermione was in
danger and they would have felt guilty if anything had happen to her.
 And good thing they did, since something would have happened to her
if they had not gone at that moment.  If they had run and gotten a
teacher, then that would have taken up time and Hermione would have
been crushed under the troll club by the time they got back with a
teacher.  Good think they did act as they did.

They did not go after the troll initially, and they did not consider
all the consequences of their choice.  All they knew that given the
choice of warning their friend and thus possibly saving her life or
leaving her unwarned and unaware, they chose to save their friend.  It
is that simple.  They learned then that they did have other choices,
but when they think back on it, they did choose the right one.  Any
other one would have left her dead or seriously injured.

DrMM wrote:
>Yeah, I know Harry was pushed to go try and get the stone, which is
>why I said it was an iffy example. I'm of the theory that Dumbledore
>knew all along what Harry & Co. were doing and he wanted them to go
>after Quirrel. However, Harry made his own choices. He didn't have to
>go after Quirrel.  Yes, going after Quirrel was brave but it was
>still a rash decision, that could have caused his death (and very
>nearly did).

Yes.  Harry did make that choice.  Harry always has choices.  Being
able to choose amongst many paths is the greatest power we have.
(hehe...why am I thinking of Matrix Reloaded  ::big grin::)  No matter
how much someone tries to influence out choices and manipulate them,
in the end it is our choice.  Now here is a prime example of
influences choices.  You admit yourself that you believe Dumbledore
wants them to go after the stone and Quirrelmort; therefore,
Dumbledore is trying to shape Harry to make that choice.  Showing
Harry why he should choose to go after Quirrelmort and how he can have
a chance against him.

So, can we say it is solely on Harry's shoulders to bare the brunt of
his decisions?

I am of two minds on this.  Yes, it is because it is his decision, but
then again, how is anyone, especially a child, an island in their
decisions.  A child is learning to make sound decisions.  And frankly,
the reward of major points is a great indicator to the child that
their decisions and actions are smiled upon.  Dumbledore is
encouraging Harry to make the decisions he does.  To say Harry is to
blame for them is unfair.


Dr. MM wrote:
>>>He rushes off to the Forbidden
>>>Forest, knowing full well how dangerous it is and nearly dies.

So I wrote:
>>Well, Hagrid did tell him to do it.  Harry is anything if not
>>obedient.  And Harry did have detention in the forest where he was
>>rescued by a centaur the last time.

So she wrote back:
>Harry obedient? I hope you're being sarcastic there ... Like I said,
>he knows how dangerous it is. Hagrid may have told him to go but that
>doesn't mean he had to. And being rescued by a centaur was luck. He
>saw how angry the other centaur was, so he should know better than to
>be expect to be rescued again if he's in trouble.

Actually, I wasn't being sarcastic at all.

Harry is very obedient.  Look at him at the Dursley's.  He does what
he is told.  Period.  He did not argue.  It was "Yes, Aunt Petunia.
Yes, Uncle Vernon."  He did the chores he was told to do.  He dug out
the garden in the blazing sun.  In fact, the only time Harry disobeyed
them was when they were not feeding him and he snuck out of his
cabinet and escaped to Hogwarts.  Well he broke his bet with Dursley,
but if you analyze their bet in PoA, it shows how Harry's obedience
works.  If it compromises Harry's morals or feelings of pride, then
Harry will go against it.

Ok, actually let me tweak this a bit.  Harry is growing up.  He is
becoming more independent as any budding teenager would.  But he
always, always, obeys Dumbledore and Lupin. (thank you to Gail for
that little fact)  Harry is exploring his boundaries and working on
impulse like he did going into Hogsmeade without permission, but he
does learn and listen.  I find that to be the greater gift.

Now back to the CoS decision to go into the forest.  Hagrid was just
arrested.  Arrested under great distress.  Harry just lost his "big
older brother" who he knows is innocent.  Harry *knows* he is.  That
means, Harry is int eh position to prove Hagrid's innocence.  Before
this "big older brother" was taken away, first Dumbledore looked
straight at Harry and told him help will come to those who need it,
and then Hagrid told Harry to follow spiders.  If you put two and two
together, even if those spiders go into the forest, Dumbledore told
Harry help will come to those who need it and stay loyal.

Well.  It did.  Twice.

Granted, we do not know if Dumbledore knows about the car, but it did
come when they needed it.

But mostly, we have a Harry that *has* to save Hagrid.  He knows he is
innocent, and as far as Harry knows, he is the only one that knows
that fact.  In Harry's mind, he alone can save Hagrid.  Dumbledore was
just removed from the school.  Dumbledore and Hagrid had just
encouraged Harry to continue his quest.  Harry knew what they wanted
him to do.  Was he really supposed to say, "Hey, this is dangerous.
Even though Dumbledore told me help will come and Hagrid told me what
to do, I am going to let Hagrid rot in jail and Dumbledore find a
different school to teach because I might be hurt."  That is not Harry
and that is not a Gryffindor.


> They were pressed for time? Well, they took a few minutes to go get
> Lockhart, so it wouldn't have taken much extra time to get another
> teacher.

Harry and Ron finally...finally ran to a teacher.  Their DADA teacher
no less.  The one who is *suppose* to be able to defeat a powerful bad
animal.  The one they knew was going after the Basilisk by order of
the rest of the teachers.  They went to warn him, not to get his help.
 They wanted him to do it, but when they got there, he was a total
incompetent who tried to erase their minds.  Hmmm....they took measure
in their hands.  Glad too.  They knew they were pressed for time and
that Ginny was down there, so they took the teacher they had and went
down with him.

And who else was there?  Snape?  Ha!  McG?  The last time in PS/SS
they ran to her, she told them to leave things alone.  Flitwick has
never show signs of defeating big, evil, nasty creatures, but he can
swish and flick it above them.  But then again, he is very small.
(sorry, had to put that from TTT:LOTR in there.  ::big grin::)
Everyone else is minor teachers in Harry's life right now.  SO that
leaves him alone with Ron with the knowledge that help will come to
those who ask.


> And would Harry have to defeat the bad guys if he let someone else
> have a chance? :)

Would anyone of defeated both the snake and Riddle if they had had a
chance?

Riddle was not after them.  He was after Harry.  He kept Harry alive
longer for that reason.  Anyone else, he would have killed or drained.
 But I am assuming that.  I do not know.  Maybe the likes of Snape had
a chance.


DrMM wrote:
>Yes, Harry was scolded for that by Lupin. But Lupin is the only
>person that reprimands him that he's actually listened to. If
>McGonagall had caught him instead of Snape, I don't think Harry would
>have "gotten it." And I'm not fully sure that Harry learned his
>lesson. After all, he still rushes after Ron into a dangerous
>situation later.

I still fail to see how those two parallel.  When Harry went to
Hogsmeade the first time, it was for pure pleasure.  It was dangerous.
 When he went after Ron later, it was to save Ron from the big black
dog that had him in his jaws and just broke his leg.  A *dog*.  How
was Harry to know it was Sirius Black?  It was a dog who had his best
friend.  Any normal person would have run after him.  I know I would.
 There is always a possibility that the situation you are running into
is more dangerous than you might know, but if my best friend was in
trouble, or my brother or boyfriend, I *so* would be there in a second
kicking whatever's ass was tormenting him.  I mean...is Harry a wizard
or what?


DrMM wrote:
> Harry rushes into situations without thinking of the danger. It's a
> very noble and self-sacrificing (and Gryffindor) trait, but not
> always the best one. Harry needs to learn to restrain this instinct.
>
> After all, he who runs away lives to fight another day. :)

DrMM.  You want Harry to be like Draco?

In the CoMC class, it was the Slytherins that made the wiser choice
and ran for protection in Hagrid's hut.  Wiser choice for themselves.
 For their life only.  The better choice for humanity and the other
students was to help Hagrid like the Gryffindor's do.  And there in
lies the difference between people.  Some hold the Gryffindor's
stupid.  Some think the Slytherin's selfish.  We just know how JKR
sees that situation.


DrMM wrote:
>Peter wouldn't have transformed willingly but Dumbledore *would* have
>at least listened to Sirius -- and then he could force Peter to
>transform the way Lupin and Sirius did. All Sirius would need to do
>is keep a good grip on him, while explaining this to Dumbledore.
>
>I don't think Dumbledore ever talked to Sirius before he went to
>Azkaban. He certainly listens to Sirius after he's captured.

And why is that?  Why did Dumbledore, who was close to James and the
crew, no go and talk to Black?  Why did he not go and hear his view of
things and the truth?  Dumbledore is a powerful wizard in a powerful
position.  Fudge goes to him for advice, so seems to me, Dumbledore
just had to ask and he could go.

And yet, eh didn't.  He did not know that Black was innocent.  He did
not know that Black was not the secret keeper.  If he did not listen
to Black then, why would he in the SS?  Black did not seem to think
Dumbledore would listen to him either.  Black did not seek Dumbledore
out to tell him the truth.  Black assumed that it was up to him to
give justice to the true betrayer of the Potters.  It is only when he
had nothing to loose and Dumbledore had the upper hand that Black told
Dumbledore, and Dumbledore finally asked.


DrMM wrote:
> There's a quote from Terry Pratchett I think is appropriate.  "You
> mean you need cool calculating bastards to save the world, do you?"
> (Thief of Time).

See.  Snape *is* working to save the world.  So is Dumbledore.

Pip and Grey Wolf, can we print that on the safe house welcome mat?
::big toothy grin::


Melody