parenting

[jwcpgh]

No: HPFGUIDX 84357

Hi Del-

Okay, I'm trying again after carefully making sure I had the right 
address this time...

A disclaimer:  I am hardly trying to set myself up as a parenting 
expert! I only speak for myself. My posts are based on what I've 
experienced and seen others experience, but I've never made a study, 
and I am aware that there is a multiplicity of opinions and 
approaches on this subject out there.  Lots of different parenting 
techniques work, and none of them is perfect-because we're not 
perfect.
My credentials, such as they are (*grin*) are that my husband and I 
have 2 kids, a son 18 who is in his freshman year at a college 
entirely too far away from us (sigh) and a 15 year old daughter who 
is a sophomore in high school and the person who got me hooked on 
HP. I'm a full-time at-home mom and volunteer.  I'm extremely lucky 
to have been able to do this, I know.

You wrote:
But do you have any idea how many parents out there STILL believe 
that kids are some kind of creations that must be molded to fit 
their parents' expectations ?

My in-laws are like that, which may be why Mike (my husband) doesn't 
live in his hometown.  Actually, I think they had kids only as a way 
to have grandchildren-they started badgering their kids about that 
when they were little.  Arrgh!

You wrote:
And as far as saying that Molly's attachment is not healthy, I think
you're going too far. Molly wants what's best for her kids and she
thinks she knows better than they do, so what ? Seems perfectly
normal to me. Wrong, but normal. She hasn't realised Bill is an
adult, and maybe she never will, like many *many* moms. Perfectly
normal, nothing unhealthy in that.

It may be normal but I don't think it's healthy.  How sad not to let 
your kids grow up and be who they are.  I'm discovering that one of 
the great rewards of parenting is watching your kids grow into the 
person they are to be.  Seeing them take on responsibility, learn 
how to care for other people, watching their minds grow increasingly 
sophisticated is the most remarkable thing.  It would be sad if 
Molly deprived herself of that joy.  Because the kids will grow up 
and become independent whether she likes it or not, so she may as 
well enjoy the ride.

You wrote:
I've met quite a few women who think something entirely different, 
namely that true happiness comes only in losing yourself completely 
in the service of yout family. If that makes them happy, who can say 
it's not healthy ?

I have to admit that the phrase "losing yourself in the service of 
your family"  makes me very uncomfortable.  Maybe you mean something 
different than the way it sounds to me.  But I don't think any 
relationship is a healthy one when one party loses their identity in 
it.  It's the interaction that makes it a relationship; otherwise, 
it's just like talking to yourself.  

You wrote:
But some don't WANT to ! For some it's simply painful to be away from
their family, even for the shortest of times !

The thing is, though, even if you don't want to be away from them, 
they're going to want to be away from you.  School, friends, summer 
camp-all those things take them away from us and into their own 
lives.  Maybe it's good to get some practice before it's forced on 
us.  And it's a good thing to spend some time alone with your 
partner-kids take up so much time and emotional energy that 
sometimes you neglect the other adult you live with.

You wrote:
You know, most people don't react *that* quickly to changes in their
lives. I guess Molly just didn't realize beforehand how drastically
her life would change once Ginny was off to school. And even after
Ginny left, it might have taken months, maybe even years, for Molly
to understand why she wasn't feeling too good. In real life, it often
takes years for people to pinpoint the origin of their unhappiness.

I hear you on that!  Even knowing that our son would leave and being 
able to prepare for it, wwe're still feeling the repercussions. 
There's only so much you can do to prepare for the unknown, I 
guess.  Still, it wasn't like it was a big surprise that Molly would 
be alone in the house once Ginny left.  
 

You wrote:
Honestly ! Look around you and tell me how many people actually deal
with fear by gaining power over it ?! 

Actually, more than you might think.  I've done a lot of volunteer 
work with our local AIDS service organizations, and I've known many 
women who are cancer survivors.  And the way that people handle the 
worst news imaginable is consistently amazing and awe-inspiring.  
Most of the people I've known have picked themselves up off the 
ground and fought back, by learning about their disease, by taking 
care of themselves, by loving the life they have left.  It's 
extraordinary to see.  That doesn't mean you don't feel fear or that 
the cause of the fear goes away.  It just means you choose not to 
give in to it. And I don't think the people I know are different 
from most.> 

You wrote:
So maybe you can help me with a problem I'll have to face in a few
years : how do you tell a child about sex offenders that prey on
kids ? 

Sigh.  Yeah, it is heartbreaking to think that your innocent kids 
will have to confront the ugliness that exists in the world.  Still, 
I think there are ways to do it that decease the emphasis on fear 
and put it on honing your own resources.  It always makes me sad 
when I see parents in the grocery store tell their kids to stay 
close "or else someone might steal you and take you away".  I mean, 
gee, our friends and lovers were strangers once, right?  Not all 
people we don't know are bad; in fact, most aren't.  
It was always more important to teach our kids coping mechanisms 
than to tell them in detail what there was to be afraid of.  Then, 
if, God forbid, something happened to them, they had a shot at 
coming out of it alive and in one piece.  So, for instance, we would 
tell them that if they got separated from us in the store, they 
should find a clerk, and we'd make sure to show the kids what the 
employee id looked like.  And we had a code word that anyone trying 
to pick them up from school would have to use.  We also taught them 
to call for us in a crowd by our names rather than mommy or daddy, 
since anyone can be mommy or daddy.  
Once the kids start school, they learn stuff very quickly, sad to 
say.  A lot of parents don't keep a strict eye on their kids' levels 
of media exposure in this sex-saturated culture of ours, so kids 
think they know all kinds of stuff and are always happy to tell 
their friends about it.  I tried to monitor what the kids were 
hearing so that I could correct misinformation and answer 
questions.  But some stuff you'll just never hear about.

I said:
 But you don't act the same way with a 15 year old as you do with a 
15 month old, and you don't act the same way with a 25 year old as 
you do with a 15 year old.


You wrote:
Then why do you think so many parents do just that ?

A lot of parents have a favorite age and they'd like to keep their 
kids that age forever.  Maybe that's part of it.  Maybe it's fear of 
losing our power over our kids, or fear that they'll leave us.  But 
none of these things will prevent the inevitable.  If you respect 
your kid's growth, you probably have the best chance at staying 
close to him or her, because they know that you love them for the 
person they are at that stage of development.  In other words, you 
love them for themselves, not because they're an extension of you.  
"artcase" wrote:

In another post, you responded to artcase:
Moreover, I think it would be terrible if Petunia was described as
the bad working mother, while Molly would be described as the good
stay-at-home mom ! Now what would THAT teach the young readers !? And
the other way around might be seen as overly feminist, don't you
think ?


What do you mean by overly feminist?  Feminism doesn't devalue 
motherhood, at least not the feminism I know.  It advocates that 
both women and men be allowed to choose what they do with their 
lives free of gender stereotypes.  Feminists nowadays recognize the 
importance of parenthood a lot more than the general culture does, 
imo.

You wrote:
Er... Let's put it this way : I am a working mom and wife, and I am
thoroughly miserable at work because my only dream *right now* is to
be a stay-at-home mom. My husband, on the other hand, is right now 
unemployed, so forced to stay at home, and thoroughly miserable too, 
because he feels that he has to go out there and earn money to take 
care of his family, in order for *him* to be happy.
So much for equality. And we're not doing it on purpose to annoy
anyone.

I'm American (don't know if you are) and I think that in this 
country we talk a lot about how much we value children and families, 
but we don't walk the walk.   My conversations with women suggest to 
me that many more would like to be at home with their kids than can 
afford to be.  But there's no cultural support for that.  Full time 
mothers are still thought of as slackers, kids are nothing more than 
walking advertisements for clothes, shoes and toys, pay for day care 
providers is so awful that the turnover is ridiculous, and on and 
on. Family leave-hah. It will take a groundswell of outrage from 
women (and men too, I hope, but most of the energy will come from 
us, I suspect) to change this-and it's growing out there.  
You don't need to apologize to anyone for the family structure you 
and your husband want.  There are lots of ways to be a family and as 
long as everyone's fed and cared for, the details are up to the 
family in question, it seems to me.  You and artcase both have 
reason to be angry-you're not getting the societal support you need 
to be a parent, and what more important job is there than that? 
Traditional, feminist, post-modern, gay, straight, single, blended-
who cares what the label is as long as everyone is cared for and 
loved?

I hope things get easier for you and your family very soon.

Best-

Laura