Responsability for Sirius's Death

[sachmet96]

No: HPFGUIDX 84616


> > sachmet96:
> > I don't see how this makes him not responsible for his own death. 
He
> > knew not to leave the house but did it, the reason why he 
shouldn't
> > leave it is unimportant imo. He left and dies, so it's his fault. 
If
> > he hadn't died then his whereabouts would have been known and he
> > would have endangered the people who where seen there with him
> 
> Me (K)
> 
> who was going to make his whereabouts known? Most of the DEs were 
escaed
> prisoners, Voldemort was trying to pretend he didn't existy. That 
leaves
> people like Lucius malfoy - who was in the building to try and kill 
Harry
> Potter - how exactly were they going to report it to the Ministry?

sachmet96:
Fudge did come in the end. It was only lucky that the body of Sirius 
went through the veil, else there would have been trouble for the 
Order and Dumbledore, how were they to explain his presence?
That's what I meant.  

K:
> He didn't run off in an irresponsible manner, he went with a well 
organized
> rescue party, organized btw by the very people you are saying 
didn't want
> him to leave the house, if they hadn't decided that it was OK for 
him to
> come he wouldn't have arrived with them he'd have arrived alone. 

sachmet96:
I was of the impression they had to hurryI don't think they had the 
time to discuss with a probably stubborn and unreasonalbe Sirius (and 
make him see sense) so they had to take him with them, if they wanted 
to or not.

K:
The fact is
> that Sirius is Harry's godfather, the one thing he can still do for 
his best
> friend is look after Harry. In his mind (and to some extent in the 
minds of
> others - Dumbledore accepts permission slips from him, Molly 
wouldn't argue
> about Harry's welfare with him if she felt it wasn't his concern) 
he is
> responsible for Harry. it would have been irresponsible to let 
others go off
> and risk their lives to rescue him and sit at home himself doing 
nothing
> when he was (afawk) as capable as any of the others there and in no 
more
> danger than any of them.

sachmet96:
I disagree there. As his godfather it is his responsibility to care 
for Harry right, but that does mean to stay alive and not die on him 
or try to rescue him when there were other people to do it who were 
suited to do it. I think that was irresponsible of Sirius.

K:
> > Appart from that Snape contacted him to make sure he was at 
Grimmauld
> > Place so Sirius would have known something was up and he shouldn't
> > leave the house.
> >
> 
> But Snape checked if he was there to see if Harry was right about 
him being
> a prisoner at the MoM not to check if he was being a good little 
boy.

sachmet96:
And told him to stay in the house to inform DD. 
UK OotP p. 732
"Professor Snape requested that Sirius remain behind, as he needed 
somebody to remain at Headquarters to tell me what had happened,..."


K: 
> He had as much reason to be there as anyone else. Again he didn't 
run off
> without informing anyone where he was going - the rest of the 
rescue party
> knew he was there and if his staying behind had been as vital as 
you seem to
> think then either they would have insisted he do it or assigned 
someone else
> to do it. I would point out that you seem to think there were 
enough of them
> without him there but they didn't defeat the bad guys easily by 
overwhelming
> numbers, with one less person in the fight for the Order *more* 
people could
> have died.

sachmet96:
Not if Sirius had stayed behind as instructed. DD was the important 
person in the fight and because of Sirius he was too late and so all 
others were unnecessarily endangered.

I think we both just have to agree to disagree on this matter :-).