Could Time-Turner be used to save Black?

[alshainofthenorth]

No: HPFGUIDX 82164

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "theultimatesen"
<senderellabrat at a...> wrote:
> NakedHermione:
> > A thousand pardons to the group if this question has already been 
> > asked but...
> > Could the Time-Turner used by Hermione in POA (to save Black the 
> > first time) also be used to go back in time and save Sirius from 
> > being killed by Bellatrix in OOTP? If so, why hasn't any of 
> > Dumbledore's crew thought of it? Is it not possible after someone 
> has 
> > already died?
> 
> Then Amanda:
> Even if the idea occurred to anyone, and they tried it, they would 
> fail. Because, even if the idea itself hasn't happened yet, we have 
> *already experienced* the time to which they would return, and Sirius 
> died. The events they want to affect have already happened.
> 
> Take Buckbeak--he was never actually killed. They didn't go back and 
> *change* things--they were simply a part of the things that did 
> occur, that already had happened. If an attempt to save Sirius were 
> made, we would already have seen that attempt during the fight scene, 
> and if one was made, it clearly didn't work.
> 
> So, I'd have to say no, use of the time-turner wouldn't save him, 
> because he's already died. If the time-turner were used to save him, 
> he would have survived; we just wouldn't know why yet (much like 
> Buckbeak).
> 
> 
> My turn:
> Sorry Amanda but I have to disagree. We all know JKR doesn't just put 
> things in her plot lines for ambiance. Time turners seemed to be a 
> big part of that chapter (where theyre in that room with the thing w/ 
> the egg & bird). This whole theory has crossed my mind. It took the 
> 3rd time reading OOTP (this particular chapter at 5am) before it 
> clicked. If I remember correctly, in GOF, Dumbledore said you could 
> save 2 lives that night. I believe in that area (sorry I don't have 
> my book on me for specific hard canon) there was mention of Sirius 
> getting his kiss at that moment (not by DD but by someone). Youre as 
> good as gone w/ the kiss. I don't see why the time turner couldn't be 
> used to go back to the point where he *should have* used the mirror 
> or something? I haven't thought this whole thing through yet, but I 
> do believe it's entirely possible. Forgive my lack of hard evidence, 
> but I have no clue where any of my books are. We're in the middle of 
> remodeling. Anyhow, I'd *love* to see Sirius back somehow (time 
> turner or otherwise) because I feel Harry *really* needs him in his 
> life. I know the Weasley's are family to him, but Sirius was a part 
> of his past & a part of his parents.

Alshain:
Sorry, but no go. The point of time-turners is that you can only
prevent events which haven't happened yet, not change the past. Sirius
hadn't yet been Kissed when Harry and Hermione woke up, so I think
your memory deceives you a little bit. If Fudge had had the Kiss
administered as soon as he got his hands on Sirius, no time-turner in
the world could have saved him, which is why Dumbledore is in such a
hurry.

I too have a selfish wish to see more of Sirius, but there is some
kind of purpose to his death after all. First, it was the only thing
which could make Harry drive Voldemort out of his mind -- even if he'd
done his occlumency lessons properly, Voldemort would have been too
strong for him IMO. Second, Harry needs to find out who he is for
himself, not just model his life and personality on his father
figures. Third, it's the irrevocability and tragedy of death we're
shown -- one moment alive and laughing, gone forever in the next,
without a trace of justice, romance or heroism to it.

Alshain