Thrice defied HIM [Harry]

[Richard]

No: HPFGUIDX 82233

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, InfiniteWhispers at A... wrote:
> "The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches...born 
> to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month 
> dies... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will 
> have a power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the 
> hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives..."
>
> I think, it makes sense for the 'HIM' they're talking about
> in "born to those who have thrice defied him" to be Harry,
> because in that same sentence, they're talking about Harry.
> The one with the power to vanquish the dark lord [Harry],
> born to parents who have thrice defied him [Harry], born as
> the seventh month dies [Harry]...
> 
> It makes sense to me, but it doesn't hold with what DD tells
> Harry about the prophecy being about him or Neville b/c they
> were both born to parents who have 'thrice defied' Voldemort,
> I does make sense when you read the sentence, though. Harry
> was born to parents who thrice defied him.
> 
> Maybe Harry's parents were a bit shady.

Richard here:

Sorry, but you have joined those who have stepped off the canonical 
deep end.

How do you defy a toddler?  Defiance implies refusal to obey, and 
general to refuse to obey someone in a position of power.  A child of 
fifteen months can be pretty demanding, but hardly in a position of 
power, particularly in the Wizarding World, where magical development 
seems to be left until quite late.  And parents of toddlers are 
NOTgenerally regarded as "defying" their progeny at that age, but 
of "refusing" in one form or another.  But don't feel too bad, as I 
think this is more a matter of slightly "loose" wording on the part 
of JKR.

I think the best explanation for the wording being loose (which it 
is, since LINGUISTICALLY it is plausible that the "him" is Harry) is 
that it is pretty clear from the context that the "him" referred to 
is Voldemort, and it would get a bit stilted if you replaced 
that "him" with either "the Dark Lord" or "Lord Voldemort."  What 
settles the matter though isn't just that "defied" is used, but that 
Dumbledore says that it refers to Harry's parents thrice defying 
Voldemort, and in this case I hear JKR's voice speaking pretty 
directly through the character of Dumbledore.


Richard