Chances of Being Alive at the End of Book Seven

[urghiggi]

No: HPFGUIDX 82621


> urghiggi:
> BUT I also subscribe to the "Harry lives" theory -- that JKR's long saga of 
> character development would be pretty pointless if all that effort and 
anguish 
> just led to Harry's physical death, even if it were a triumphant/sacrificial 
death. 
> OTOH, I think she is very into the message that victory is hard, requiring 
> teamwork and sacrifice, and that in the end even victory may be bittersweet 
> (the Frodo phenomenon -- "I won, but I can't be happy..."). Ron's death, esp 
if 
> he deliberately sacrifices himself, would be consistent with a "Harry wins but 
> the price is huge" scenario. 

> Taryn:
> Ah, but there's a huge difference with Frodo--he fails. In essence. Yes, the 
Ring was destroyed. Because Gollum grabbed it an fell into Mount Doom. 
Frodo failed and was consumed by the Ring. Tolkien himself says that Frodo 
failed his quest in his letters. Good reason not to be happy.
> 
> No one seems to think there's a similar fate in store for Harry. Besides, what 
is so "pointless" about sacrificing yourself to save the rest of the world? 
There's not a lack of a lesson. That's a lesson all in itself. All victories of such 
magnitude come at a price. (Can't help but let my mind wander to the 
theological parallels. Or at least the same kind of act if not quite a parallel.)
> 

urghiggi again:

Fair points, Taryn. (and you know I wrote a long brilliant response this a.m., 
which disappeared in cyberspace....) So now here's the digest version  :-)

1. Re Harry's possible death (and theological parallels) -- to me it seems it all 
depends on whether JKR intends Harry as an overt Christ figure (in which 
case he must have a sacrificial death to save the Wiz World from LV) or an 
everyman on a spiritual quest (in which case he might also die, but less 
likely). In Christian theology the only reason Christ's death is perceived is 
triumphant is because of the validation of the resurrection; otherwise (as St. 
Paul says), the whole thing is merely foolish. Yet I can't see JKR raising Harry 
from the dead, given her comments re the finality of physical death -- so I think 
if she kills him, without physically resurrecting him, it's going to be hard to 
make a case that he's not just a naive, well-meaning, deluded guy 
slaughtered by a hard world (as some people view Christ). Harry's the point-
of-view character, and we're clearly meant to identify with him. I think to many, 
it's going to feel like a cheat if the end result of his struggles is death--even if 
that death results in the defeat of LV.

2. Part of my comment was prompted by (sort of) marketing considerations. It's 
hard enough for a middle-aged adult (like me) to embrace the idea that HP 
could triumph through a sacrifical death, and that this would be a good ending 
for the series. It's an even harder sell for a juvenile audience. (Not impossible, 
but a much harder sell....) Now, the nature of JKR's target audience is the 
subject of intense debate, so who knows for sure where she's going? But if 
she is trying to write, at least in some measure, "edifying" fiction that inspires 
kids to fight the good fight ... death is a much harder payoff than life 
(notwithstanding all that "fate worse than death" talk).

3. Re Frodo & HP & bittersweetness -- yeah, in essence Frodo failed, though 
only through his heroic efforts was the final victory able to occur. But he also 
failed in that he was unable to forgive himself/receive the praise of his 
mentors, including Gandalf and Aragorn. Only by leaving Middle Earth was he 
able (presumably) to find healing/forgiveness. I could see something like that 
happening to HP (not the leaving the earth part, but the post-victory sadness) 
if the price of victory is perceived as TOO great for him, from a personal 
standpoint. (For instance, if Ron dies, Dumbledore dies, Lupin dies, Neville 
dies, Hogwarts in a shambles, etc etc etc.) I can see him unable to rejoice as 
a survivor, even if the Wiz World is thrilled with what he's done. 

OTOH -- that's again the voice of a middle-aged reader who understands 
Frodo a whole lot better at 45 than she did at 18. Tolkien (middle-aged 
Catholic don, postwar vet who'd seen many friends die, writing in the midst of 
another big war in which his son was fighting) probably had quite a different 
(and maybe more melancholy) mindset than JKR. So you may be right in 
contending that the melancholy victory model is not right for HP. I hope you 
ARE right in fact.... I'd love a happy ending, couples coupling, and all going off 
ever after like in a Jane Austen book.... ;-)

urghiggi, Chgo