Not Killer!Lupin - dont use presuppositions to "prove" your case

[samnanya]

No: HPFGUIDX 82863

Iggy McSnurd
==================
When Bellatrix was talking to Voldemort after the main
battle ("But Master, you should know..." or something
like that...) and was cut off, about a paragraph later,
she told Voldemort "But he's here..." (paraphrasing)
and he ignored her.  All details indicate that she was
trying to tell him that Dumbledore was downstairs.

Samnanya
==================
"All details"? Exactly what details are you referring to?
Every single detail? Then why didnt JKR just have Bellatrix
say "Forget Potter! Dumbledore is downstairs!" --and warn
her master of the danger? 

NO ONE {except for JKR - and she aint talkin'} can say from
that quote what Bella was trying to tell Voldemort. She could
have been saying
"You shoould know that DD is Downstairs" or

"You should know that you are a real jerk for wandering in
here with all those order of the phoenix people downstairs" or

"You should know that Lupin is on our side now. He just
killed Sirius!" or

"You should know by now that Harry already broke the prophecy
orb! So what the hell are you doing here, Dorklord ?????" 

Well, we certainly do not know ..... and how boring if we did!


Instead of these direct quotes, JKR has skillfully split
Bella's thoughts so that there can be at least some doubt
in the reader's mind about what was supposedly meant to be
said. That is what creates the tension and the page turning
of a good story. The reader is EXPECTED to assume that Bella
is trying to warn LV that Dumbledore is below -- but that
does not have to be the case! And tis uncertainty is also
what fuels the speculations and theories on websites like
this. If it was clear that Bellatrix killed Sirius, Snape
is evil, Harry can't die, and Ginny ends up with the Giant
Squid, {or whatever other beliefs we each hold so strongly}
then there would never be that much excitement generated
about events in the Potterverse. It would be like Hermione
reading the Sunday Prophet after the fact
in the last chapter .... 
 

Iggy McSnurd 
===============
I think what's happening sometimes is that sometimes people
look at individual quotes on occasion (and I'm guilty of
this on occasion as well)and narrow their focus onto that
as an indicator of something without looking at all the
circumstances and other actions or dialogue that
surrounds the quote.

Samnanya
I can say that I am not a generic "people" who "narrow their
focus onto that without looking at all the circumstances" ---
that would be damning me and not my argument (and saying
that you are guilty of it too does not mitigate
your statement).

I have read the sections that I quoted many many times
and am approaching what JKR wrote from an assumption
(killer!Lupin) that is just as valid as (Good!Lupin) --
until proven otherwise.  My first reaction to Evil!Lupin
was about the same as my reaction to a Harry/Draco ship.
. but the arguments i read altered my perceptions and at
least opened the POSSIBILITY that Evil!Lupin was valid.
I would not fling book 7 into the trash if Evil!Lupin was
a key plotpoint. I would not necesarily be happy but I
would feel that the seeds had been planted to support
Evil!Lupin. They dont have to sprout into devils snare
 but at least they were cleverly planted.  

However, when "people" use presuppositions to support
their arguments and therefore conclude that their views
are correct, they are not using logic to refute an argument,
they are using emotion and prejudicial assumptions.  What
you say that "sometimes happens" has not happened in my
analysis. I invite you to rip my arguments apart! Show me
canon that refutes Evil!Lupin or causes me to say "Oops!" 
I am more than happy to admit to errors of fact or logic
or bad recollection, and have done so previously on this
site. I also dont WANT to believe Evil!Lupin, nor do I HAVE
to believe it, but the arguments made by pippin, myself
and others are at least in the realm of possibility and
cannot easily be discounted {until disproved in canon}.


samnanya
who does not believe in Harry's feelings towards centaurs..... 
keep on posting Iggy! This is not personal......