Pippin, you've done it again! (Was -who will betray the Order?)

[slgazit]

No: HPFGUIDX 82907

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, FoxyDoxy <foxydoxy1 at y...> wrote:
> I don't see how, with all the evidence that points in that 
direction, 
> you can still call him a *decent* person. Lupin has deliberately 
put 
> thousands of lives in danger over the years,

How so? You mean because he was a werewolf? What exactly could he do 
about that, other than commit suicide (which is not something that 
most people do)?

> he has betrayed 
> Dumbledore's trust,

If you refer to the fact that he did not tell DD about their 
escapades while he was in school, this may have been irresponsible 
but no worse than what his friends (the illegal animagi) did. If you 
mean because he did not tell DD that Sirius was an animagus, there is 
his own explanation (that he was ashamed of his youthfull 
transgressions). I also suspect that deep down he never completely 
accepted that Sirius was evil.

> and he quite possibly betrayed the trust of his 
> closest schoolmates.

How so?

> He must have done something for them to not even 
> consider him for the secret keeper job.

They knew that one of them was the traitor. They suspected him. That 
was a mistake on their part. How does that prove his guilt?

> (Side note: Why is Lupin's 
> name so conspicuously absent during the discussion between 
McGonagall,
>  Flitwick, Hagrid, & Fudge at the 3 broomsticks? He doesn't even 
get 
> an honorable mention. He was working at the school, it's not like 
they 
> could have just forgotten about him.)

Why should they mention his name? They were describing Sirius' 
capture. Lupin wasn't anywhere there, was he?

> If you read the showdown at the DoM scene that has been the main 
topic 
> of discussion lately, it looks like Lupin doesn't even have his 
wand 
> out. And why should he? If he's working both sides who does he have 
to 
> defend himself against?

Where does it say that he did not have his wand out? I need to reread 
that part, but the whole scene was so chaotic that one can't really 
tell who did what in there. My impression was that Lupin was assigned 
(or assigned to himself) the role of the kids' guardian. He is the 
only OoP member who asks about the kids or tells Harry and Ron what 
to do (except for a brief comment from Sirius). He is the one who 
stops Harry from running after Sirius. It is a very natural role for 
him, as he was the only ex-teacher in the group (Moody does not count 
for obvious reasons) and also because he seems to have taken on that 
role since the beginning of OoP - he was almost always part of 
Harry's guard when he was going to or from their headquarters.
 
> I believe Lupin did take out his wand to kill Sirius when no one 
was 
> watching him.

Sorry, I read all these arguments and I see absolutely no evidence in 
the plot to the claim that Lupin killed Sirius. But there is quite a 
few clues in the story to tell us how upset Lupin was at Sirius' 
death - his voice breaking, the effort involved in moving his eyes 
from the archway. He sounded as if every word caused him pain. Hardly 
the image of a cold blooded murderer...
There is Bellatrix behaviour and the text which show that she was the 
one responsible, and she has shown herself to be extremely capable 
fighter.

> Lupin tried to distract his attention from the 
> scene by sending him to go round up the others.

Lupin's role in the group was to look out for the kids. I think it 
was very clear from the text. It made perfect sense to send Harry 
(the prime target for the attack) away from the battle. Lupin did not 
want the kids in there - too dangerous.

> *If* for some reason it turns out that Lupin is not ESE or a 
killer, 
> then he is just a weak and treacherous coward. And I for one do not 
find 
> that *decent* either.

Again, where is the evidence for that? He is not perfect. He is shown 
in the story as a decent humane person, but not always consistent in 
following up on his principles when they conflicted with his loyalty 
to his friends. This is a character fault to be certain, but hardly 
proof that he is evil.

Salit
(who knows she can't convince anyone but decided to respond anyway)