Unfinished Business (was: did Lupin kill Sirius)

[jwcpgh]

No: HPFGUIDX 83179

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "arrowsmithbt" 
> Kneasy:
<snip>I for one refuse point blank to embrace workmates, neighbours 
or indeed any other part  of the human race with which I do not  
have close emotional ties at the behest of a self-selected group of 
patronising, simplistic, 'lets  all love one another'mental and 
social gauleiters. I submit that  Snape would agree.

Laura:

Are you talking literally or metaphorically?  If the former, there's 
just not a lot of touch-feely stuff going on in the Potterverse at 
all, as we've noted before on this list.  An occasional well-placed 
hug might have done wonders for certain characters.  I always feel a 
twinge of sadness that Harry and Sirius never really hugged each 
other-all that British stoicism and male machismo interfered too 
much.  But as for Snape, well, no one would dare cross his physical 
boundaries.  
If you're talking metaphorically, again, I don't see evidence of 
that attitude in the Potterverse.  There's a formality in the 
culture that is quite unlike, say, American attitudes. (I think we 
could use a bit more of that, actually.)  But Snape is just a 
miserable misanthrope.  You never see him engaging in casual 
conversation with anyone at the staff table at meals or hanging out 
in the staffroom.  He communicates what he has to when he has to and 
that's it.  
We know that Sirius (oh, stop grinding your teeth, Kneasy) refers to 
a gang of Slytherins with whom Snape hung out.  But we don't know 
what kind of relationship this was-was it really friendship or just 
a common interest in nastiness and intimidation (the Slytherin house 
hobbies)?  So I'm not sure that we have any canon at all for Snape 
ever having had what we could define as a friendship.  
My point was that it's unreasonable of Snape to use his personal 
losses as his excuse for his unkindness to students, since lots of 
other people suffered what he did and more and seem to be able to 
form human connections.  He was just always like that and if he 
wants to blame it on LV, fine, but I'm not buying.

Kneasy: 
<snip> My contention is that he has been in a normal (or  close to 
normal) relationship and that this was destroyed by, or at  the 
instigation of, Voldemort and that Snape is now taking the position 
of 'once burned, twice shy.'(Doesn't this just tug at the 
heartstrings?)

Laura responds:
Ah...but who do you think was the lucky lady?  Come on, Kneasy, give 
us some hermeneutical exegesis here.  (I love it when listess talk 
philosophy...*grin*)
> 
> 
> > Laura:
> > Sure, but what I'm asking is what happens after the catharsis 
you say he needs.  <snip> 
> 
> Kneasy:
> We won't know. I'm betting that he won't survive. I'm not sure he 
wants to. Once his aim has been achieved (even if he gets that far), 
what else is left for him?
<snip> 
> 
Laura responds:
Yes, I have to agree, sadly.  And although it's painful to think of 
Snape's joyless life, the reality is that it happens sometimes.  
We've all known people who were angry and bitter all their lives and 
died in the same state.  if Snape gets his revenge, he'll be angry 
and bitter when he dies, but satisfied.

<snip>  
> Kneasy:
> Did Snape know that he was going into danger?  No.
> Did Sirius know  that Snape was going into danger?  Yes.
> Who bears the responsibility? Sirius.
> Wouldn't *you* say that Sirius had a moral responsibility to Snape?
> Or have I  misunderstood your ethics?
> 
> Sure, Snape was eager, but to do what? What had he been told?
> What was it he suspected or surmised that he would find?
> Just what had Sirius said to him? "Go in there and you'll get the 
true lowdown on the Gang?" Hardly.
> 
Laura responds:
Do you really think that Snape had no theory at all about what was 
going on with Remus?  He had had at least 5 years, maybe 6, by this 
time to watch the goings-on, and he was no fool.  Every full moon 
Remus disappears for a night? Hmm, wonder what that could mean?  I 
think he had a very strong suspicion about Remus's secret.  
Yes, Sirius knew he was suggesting something dangerous-not smart.  
Did he think Snape would be stupid enough to do what he had 
suggested?  He probably didn't care one way or the other-again, not 
smart.  Yes, Sirius bears some moral responsibility here.  But Snape 
was entirely capable of judging for himself the motives behind 
Siriius's advice to him.  Ultimately our actions are our own 
responsibility, wouldn't you agree?
Snape wanted 2 things-to find out what Remus was doing every month 
and to get any information he could that would cause trouble for the 
Marauders.  The prank was only to do with the former-we don't have 
any evidence that Snape knew about the monthly transformations.  
(See PoA p. 357 US) Sirius told Snape that he could get some 
information about Remus and Ssnape took him at his word.  Would he 
have done the same thing if Sirius had offered him a drink or help 
with his homework?  Of course not-he would have told Sirius to take 
a hike.  Snape chose to let his desire for power over any of the 
Marauders guide him.  A decision to act in a morally dubious way 
based on unreliable information...not smart and not good. 
<snip>

Laura, who wonders why she even bothers to put her HPs back on the 
bookshelf when they inevitably end up next to the computer anyhow