Inside Dumbledore's Head (was Re: Prophets without Honour)

[jwcpgh]

No: HPFGUIDX 79471

Wanda:

I have to say, I think that this interpretation of Dumbledore cannot 
be right. <snip> I think it would be bad, even immoral, for Rowling 
to set up children to think that Dumbledore is good and trustworthy, 
and then to knock that down.

Kirstini-

Pip and I have both highlighted areas where DD's actions have been 
ambiguous. During the "gleam of triumph" bit in GoF, Harry catches a 
glimpse of another, altogether more frightening side of DD. There 
must have been hints, if so many people on the list *have* picked up 
on them. <snip>Also, we aren't denying for a moment that he's working 
for good. Just questioning his methods.  <snip>
But I was trying to point out that she may very well be creating a 
situation where this sort of realisation is possible. <snip>DD has 
already revealed that he is at least mildly calculating. By telling 
Harry "I cared more about your life than the other lives which would 
be lost", DD implies that he is *now* putting those lives before 
Harry's. Manipulation is inevitable in the position he's in, which is 
that of the head of an army at war. War isn't a very nice thing for 
children to read about either - there are lots of random deaths, and 
generals inevitably have to make judgement calls which occasionally 
turn out to have been mistakes and lose lives. Which is what DD 
admits happened to Sirius. 

Kneasy-

I've been a bit leery of DD for years. <snip>When I started posting, 
there seemed to be a preponderance of views that equated DD with 
Gandalf. Old, wise, powerful, unbending integrity, etc. I was 
surprised. I couldn't match this up with, for example, his (in)action 
towards Lucius Malfoy at the end of CoS. DD's own suspension, 
kidnapping, petrifications, mayhem, everything except murder. With 
Malfoy as the prime mover, palming the diary onto Ginny. And all he 
gets from DD is a veiled threat as to future 
behaviour. Does not compute. Not for a character supposedly 
vehemently, implacably anti-evil. <snip>I don't doubt but that he 
wants to defeat Voldemort, but I feel there's more to it.

Laura-

Okay, okay, I'm beginning to come around to the suspicious!DD side.  
There's evidence that JKR wants us to start distancing ourselves from 
him as well-the couple of incidents in which Harry sees him become a 
fear-inspiring figure in OoP.  Those just confirm what we have known 
for a while-that DD can be pretty tough-minded if he wants to be.  He 
had no problem hanging Snape out to dry in front of Fudge in PoA, and 
doing the same to Fudge in the last 2 books.  

But if I'm reading all the posts correctly, Kneasy is a lot more 
hostile to DD than either Pip or Kirstini.  The latter 2 think he's 
fundamentally on the good side but that he makes some decisions that 
are either poorly thought out or just plain cruel.  But Kneasy thinks 
there's something else going on with DD altogether.  

I don't have any problem with the idea that JRK is showing us how 
Harry begins to see the adults in his life more realistically as he 
gets older.  Kids have to do that if they're to be able to manage 
themselves in the world.  It wouldn't be surprising for Harry to feel 
and act alienated from DD for a while, and goodness knows he has lots 
of valid reasons for doing so.  DD is a complex character trying to 
deal with a crisis of extreme proportions.  Harry can't possibly 
grasp the position DD is in at the age of 15.  But he can begin to 
understand that in DD's position, he, Harry, might make different 
decisions.  That would be a frightening and alienating experience for 
Harry, but an inevitable one. If we can project Harry into adulthood, 
I would guess that he will continue re-evaluating DD for most of his 
life.   Most kids just have to deal with not getting the car when 
they want it or parental disapproval of their boy/girlfriends.  Harry 
has to take in the reality that DD's mishandling of both himself and 
Sirius cost Sirius his life.  

I still can't decide, though, whether Kirstini and Pip are right or 
whether Kneasy is (if I'm understanding everyone correctly).  Clearly 
DD has the big picture to deal with.  Clearly he has to make 
decisions that might hurt individuals in order to save society.  
(Although it would have been better for Harry and Sirius if DD had 
cared about Harry just a little less-then DD would have been able to 
tell Harry what he needed to know.)  Whether his behavior toward 
Harry will change is still an open question; I think his remarks in 
OoP simply suggest that he's called himself on his own behavior and 
intends to be honest with himself from now on. 

But Kneasy thinks there's something deeper going on with DD.  A 
personal vendetta against LV?  A drive to dominate the world 
himself?  Is he really only fighting LV for pride or ego?  I defer to 
my superiors on the list for further explanation.