Sirius and Dumbledore (Was: Pensieves objectivity & Dumbledore's integrity)

[curly_of_oster]

No: HPFGUIDX 79764

Okay, let me try to get these quotes at least close to correct <g>:

Pippin:
There is this feeling on the list that Sirius ended up at the 
Department of Mysteries because he was so stir-crazy with 
being taunted and cooped up at Grimmauld Place that he 
suicidally disregarded the danger he would face. That is illogical. 
Sirius understood the danger well enough, otherwise he 
wouldn't have wanted to rescue Harry in the first place. 

Abigail: 
I completely agree, Pippin, and this actually ties in to something 
that I've been thinking about for a while.  There seems to be a 
consensus on the group that Sirius is dead because Dumbledore forced 
him to stay at Grimmauld place.  Nothing could be further from the 
truth.  

This is the tragedy of Sirius' death.

Susan:
Personally, I feel Sirius died because he was Sirius.  He cared 
deeply for Harry.  In GOF he came out of hiding to hide in Hogsmeade 
to be closer to Harry.  He showed up at the TWT as a dog to see 
Harry.  In OOP he went to Kings Cross as the dog to be with Harry.  
He shows up in the fireplace to talk to Harry.  I follows his 
personality to run out of Grimauld Place to try to help Harry.  No, 
he was not happy in Grimauld Place at all but I don't think it would 
have mattered where he was, if he knew what was going on he would 
have gone to the MOM to help Harry.
Just my take on Sirius.

Now me (Lisa):
Thank you, Susan, for a nice post.  Personally, I think that there 
are actually two issues here, one being why Sirius rushed to the 
Ministry (and, in the end, to his death), and the other being 
Dumbledore's understanding (or lack thereof) of Sirius (and Harry) 
and his treatment of them in OOP.  I don't think that they're 
necessarily that closely related, and neither have I gotten the 
impression that there is a consensus on the list that they are 
clearly causally related.

A number of posters have expressed the idea that Dumbledore failed 
to see and/or understand what his strategies were doing emotionally 
to either Harry or Sirius, and I think this is true.  Or, if he did 
see/understand, maybe he didn't think it was important.  Marianne 
pointed out the changes in character she saw in Sirius in OOP vs. 
GoF.  I have a good friend who is a fan of the HP books but not 'in 
the fandom,' and while talking about OOP one of the things she said 
was, "Who was this guy who everyone kept calling Sirius Black?"  In 
my opinion, it seemed that staying in that house was doing bad 
things to Sirius' mental state.  I'm not saying he was a 'mental 
case,' but I do think one reasonable explanation for the change from 
the rational, caring person who advised Harry to be careful and 
spoke reasonably about Snape to the sullen and sometimes petulant 
person who encouraged risk-taking could be (at least in part) the 
ill-effects of confinement to his hated childhood home (complete 
with it's own Dementor substitute).  

Yes, it's true that Sirius *could* have left.  Dumbledore wasn't 
physically forcing him to stay there.  But there are multiple 
references to Dumbledore 'saying no' or Sirius not being able to go 
on Order business or 'so Dumbledore thinks.'  Dumbledore is in 
charge of the Order.  Sirius is part of the Order, and is therefore 
following Dumbledore's orders.  The fact that he isn't literally 
*forced* to do so doesn't really have anything to do with whether or 
not Dumbledore handled the situation well.  But, I digress...

That said, I also agree with Susan that Sirius' unhappiness about 
being stuck in Grimmauld Place was not what ultimately caused him to 
go off to rescue Harry.  Whatever his faults, the Sirius of all 
three books seems to be someone who will go to any length for those 
he cares about.  In GoF, he doesn't hesitate to risk his life/soul 
to come back to England to help Harry.  I think Pippin is right to 
say that Sirius understood the danger quite well when he went to the 
Department of Mysteries.  I also think Susan is right that it 
wouldn't have mattered where Sirius was.  He could have been cleared 
and been free to go off on missions of some sort for the Order.  He 
could have been less stir crazy because they found some way to get 
him away from Grimmauld Place some of the time.  He could have felt 
useful because Dumbledore came up with something other than cleaning 
the house for him to do.  I don't think any of it would have 
necessarily mattered if he found out Harry was facing a pack of 
Death Eaters at the Ministry.  Sirius loved Harry and wanted to 
protect him, and I find it hard to believe that he could be 
convinced to sit around and wait while Harry was in grave danger.  

Lisa