Time, Repetition and the Uber-Dimension (was: Narrative Function

[sevenhundredandthirteen]

No: HPFGUIDX 80053

 
silmariel wrote:

> By the 'it happened twice' theory, as you both point out, if memory 
> records only the facts the 'victim' knows, because the first set is 
> erased, you'd better be careful when you Time Travel, or you will 
> erase your own memory, not speaking of unexpected changes.

But you would never remember doing it! And the new version of events 
would explain everything perfectly, hence, as Corinth said <<it 
doesn't exist, and never did exist, in the dimension we are concerned 
with.>>> 

silmariel wrote:

In the it happened because it happened way, MoM Time use rules are 
> pretty naive. If the rules to use a tt is don't change things and 
> don't let you be seen/noticed, I find that quite a number of not so 
> honest/Griffindor minds might understand them the other way.

But this explanation of events works exactly the same!! They let you 
change things, but not get seen/noticed. And once you've changed 
them, everyone's memory is modified to compensate for that change. In 
other words, Time deletes the old version so *there never was any 
change.* So, even though Hermione may change hundreds of things every 
time she goes back in time, she never remembers doing any of them- 
hence, those changes *never* existed. Like Corinth says <<it doesn't 
exist, and never did exist, in the dimension we are concerned with.>>

silmariel wrote:

> It gives me the chills if Voldie actually put his hands on a tt 
> during the MoM assault and we are going with the 'it happened once' 
> Time treatment.

But according to your theory Voldie never remembered changing time at 
all. He changed things (gave us 2 more books to read- Go Voldie!) but 
now he will never remember how lucky he was. In other words- he'll 
make the exact same mistakes all over again. Changing Time hasn't 
given him any advantage over the opposition. It's not as if he 
suddenly knows what their plans are (if he ever found out he forgot). 
All he's achieved is more time. BUT he doesn't *know* that he has 
more time. Instead of going 'Wow! Lucky I pulled that TT stunt- now I 
know all their secrets and have the time to impliment my plans!' he 
just goes 'Wow! I escaped!'

If you can't remember ever changing Time (no-one can for that matter) 
then where is point of having this version of time-travel? Why not 
just stick with the internally-consistent version (which every 
chanracter, incidentally, believes anyway).

silmariel wrote:

> Because if I don't know something (as H didn't know Buckbead was 
> dead) I can activate the tt. If it functions, as I actually can't 
> change the timeline, it means I always did, there was never a point 
> when the timeline didn't include my travel, so I justify my own 
> actions.

But those implications are *exactly* identical to the outcome of your 
TT theory. If we belive the 'memory was modified version' then even 
though there was an older version of reality, it no longer exists. We 
are left with exactly what you described above- the 
characters 'always' doing what they did, Harry justifies his own 
actions by saying he saw himself. In other words, the very things you 
don't like about the internally-consistent version of events appear 
exactly in your own.

silmariel wrote:

> It gives a context for the kind of time we are dealing with.

It gives us a context, but no implications. Context- you can change 
time at any moment- DANGER! DANGER! but, once you do you'll forget 
all about it... so all the danger is forfeited.

It reminds me of that movie 'Memento' where the main character has 
short-term memory loss, so even though he successfully takes revenge 
on the man he thought killed his wife, he never remembers doing it. 
He ends up consciously framing another guy for the murder- except, he 
knowingly forgets ever framing him, so ends up thinking that he was 
justified. (That's a good movie, btw.)

So, my understanding is that whilst this version of time-travel is 
perfectly plausible, it's implications are no different to the 
internally-consistent version of time-travel. The only thing it gives 
us is the ability to change time- but never remember it. That is, 
change but not experience the effects of the change. So, effectively 
it *doesn't* give us the ability to change time at all! Rather, it 
gives us the eternal *possibility* of changing time, but never 
actually *allows* us to change it and remember it.

~<(Laurasia)>~