OoP - GUILTY Dumbledore (was Dumbledore's true sorrow motives)

[slgazit]

No: HPFGUIDX 80084

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "njelliot2003" <nelliot at o...> 
wrote:
> This is the bit where Harry asks DD what he saw in the Mirror of 
> Erised. Sure, he probably did lie here. It was an extremely 
personal 
> question and their relationship is hardly one of equals. So I 
don't 
> think DD is obliged to tell the truth.

While I agree with you that Dumbledore is a good character and
acts out of the noblest of motives, I think we've seen quite
a few instances of him lying. In SS/PS when he tells McGonagall
that he does not know how Harry survived (first chapter). In OoP
he of course lies to Fudge when he says that he was the organizer
of the DA. He lies for a good cause in each case but he does lie.

> Harry's needs and preferences are to play the hero, to go after 
Big 
> V. I see nothing sinister or "cold-hearted" (and neither does 
Harry 
> going by the same quote from SS pg. 302 you use above) with DD 
> helping Harry to be Harry whether it's Weapon!Harry or Chosen!
Harry.

I think Dumbledore knows that Harry has to face Voldemort and
in some ways does facilitate these confrontations which prepare
Harry for the final showdown.

> We know he is a rebel and 
> risk-taker: Sirius is disappointed that Harry turns out to be less 
> like his father than he thought because Harry cautions him against 
> turning up at Hogsmeade for a lark (OoP pg. 273 .au ed).

I think that Sirius's and Harry's relationship developed a lot during
the year. Note the difference in Sirius' attitude during the misc.
floo-chats. In the first chat Sirius shows disappointment that
Harry is not like James. During the last chat (about the pensieve
incident) Sirius has completely accepted Harry as his own person,
and interfaces with Harry as himself rather than a re-incarnation
of his father - and he shows respect and love to Harry that is
not due to his feelings about his father. His love and respect was
the reason he went to the MoM and his death. Not rashness or
risk taking for its own sake. He went there to save Harry, no other
reason. I think people miss out on how much Sirius has matured
emotionally during OoP.

> *Harry forgot all about the 2 way mirror. (Digression to point out 
> one of my gripes about JKR. Why did she introduce the mirror? Is 
it 
> just another example of her many cruelties to Harry?)

Harry never knew about the mirror. Sirius gave it wrapped up and
told him "use it if you ever need me". Harry understood that this
would summon him in some fashion and he thinks to himself that
"he knew he would never use whatever it was" (paraphrased) because
he did not want Sirius to risk living the house. In other words, he
never even opened it and thus never found out that he could have
used it to communicate with Sirius without any risk to him.

I don't know the purpose of the mirror. Perhaps to illustrate
Harry's impulsiveness and his tendency to rash out without thinking.
I think JKR's plan in having Sirius portrayed as he had and then die
has been to have Harry learn the painfull lesson about how acting
rashly can bring about horrible consequences. He has never
had to face that in previous books.

> He's left Bellatrix alone 
> because she's caught up with first Sirius and then Kingsley. 
That's 
> all.

But she was the most dangerous of the lot. Would have made sense to
go after her first.
 
> (Another digression: which of Luna's loony ideas has ever been 
> proven to be crazy? We only have Hermione's snorts of derision and 
> the scepticism of the rest of the school as "proof" that she has 
> crazy ideas.)

Luna clearly has crazy ideas. She expresses complete belief with
every nonesense published by her father, including things that
are clearly untrue (Sirius as a singing sansation for instance,
Fudge cooking goblins, etc.). How much of it is tongue in cheek is
hard to tell. My impression of her is that she is mostly on a
different plane than other people and while she has great insight,
she also can go completely off. She does not quite live on the
same planet as the rest of the people in the story. For that reason
I don't believe she will be paired with anyone in the course of
the series...

> It raises fascinating possibilities for the resolution of the 
> series. Harry, the warrior hero who is not chosen by destiny, who 
is 
> mistakenly spurred on by the belief that he is chosen, dies in the 
> penultimate showdown with Big V. Big V and followers are 
triumphant, 
> everyone else is in despair and then Neville steps up and blows 
him 
> away!

I think this will cheapen the story. I am sure that Harry is the
one meant by the prophecy. It is possible that had Voldemort attacked
Neville, that he would be "chosen", but I don't think so. I think
he would have died. Harry's mother's skill in charms is alluded to
in several places. I don't think Neville's mother would have been
able to place the same charm on him. Once Voldemort hit, the victim
was marked, as indicated by the prophecy - and he was Harry, not
Neville.

Salit