OoP - GUILTY Dumbledore (was Dumbledore's true sorrow motives)

[jwcpgh]

No: HPFGUIDX 80272


> > > Kneasy
> >
> Hum. Whenever Sirius tells Harry to be careful, always in the back-
> ground, spoken or  unspoken is "But  James wouldn't." Sirius
> claims to care for Harry, but really I wonder if he wants Harry to
> be his proxy; "I wish I could do it, but they're stopping me. Such
> a pity you can't do it instead." Emotional manipulation.

Laura:

I don't hear that voice at all.  Sirius isn't subtle about his 
feelings of frustration at GP, but I don't think he ever confuses 
Harry with James or encourages Harry to act carelessly.  If Lupin had 
said something to that effect, I'd wonder.  But Molly has her own 
agenda and Hermione...well, she's just wrong.

Kneasy:
> Harry does care, or thinks he cares, for Sirius. (Just how much 
> experience in caring does Harry have? Ans = 0) He wants Sirius'
> approval. A dangerous position to be in, knowing Sirius.

>> > Laura:

I agree that in the beginning of the series, Harry has not had a 
chance to experience a healthy, loving relationship with anyone since 
his parents died.  But he has the capacity to do so.  We see it 
growing throughout the books-he clearly cares for Hagrid and his 
friends. He worries about them, exerts effort to help them out of 
difficulties when he can and supports them (when he's speaking to 
them-he is still a kid, after all).  If he couldn't care for people, 
he wouldn't be giving LV such a hard time.  The gift of Lily's love 
would come to nothing if Harry didn't have the ability to feel it for 
and give it to others.

<snip>
> Kneasy:
DD has a plan, we're told. Why can't Harry accept that?

Laura:

Because he's never given enough information at the right time.  
Getting the story in bits and pieces as DD sees fit to feed it to him 
isn't convincing to him-can you blame him?
> 
<snip>
> Kneasy
> Ah! Romance! That all-pervading rosy glow that reduces reason to
> a whimpering irrelevence.
> Being a cynic (and proud of it), I've had enough unfortunate 
experiences
> to be aware that the details are what matter. <snip> First 
impressions are good - at first. They require confirmation asap.

Laura:

Actually I wasn't talking about romance at all, just regular 
friendship.  :-)  But sure, the details make a relationship work.  
Sirius and Harry never got the chance to find out those things about 
each other, but they did seem to have an instant (well, once Harry 
figured out that Sirius hadn't killed his parents) rapport.  

> Laura:
 <snip> He [Sirius] knows what it's like to be an impulsive, 
emotional teenager.
> 
> Kneasy:
> Too  true. He's never stopped being one himself. Sirius is 
emotional,
> he  is impulsive, hence the 'showdown' with Peter. He'd  never 
change.
> I've stated before that I think Sirius is suffering from a form of
> survivors syndrome. He feels guilty that James and Lily died and he 
> didn't;  he's looking for absolution, for forgiveness, for 
restitution.
> But being the person he is, he thinks only in terms of action. By
> sitting in Grimmaud Place moaning about doing nothing, he is
> inducing a mind-set in Harry - the only true response is to act.
> Very dangerous in an impressionable, admiring teenager.

Laura:

You can't have it both ways-either Sirius is impulsive or he's 
monomaniacal about Peter.  He either acts precipitously in the Shack 
or he's been plotting this for years.  Which one is it?

Yeah, I think you're right about the survivor syndrome.  But I also 
think Harry can see clearly why Sirius says the things he does, and I 
don't see any text that indicates that it was Sirius who influenced 
him to act as he did in OoP.  That "saving-people-thing" is a long-
standing behavior.
> 
> Laura (from before):
> > Which brings me to a question-why didn't DD just get rid of the 
globe 
> > the way he got rid of the stone when it got to be a liability?   
> 
> Kneasy:
> No firm opinions  on this one. Could be that he knew it was of 
little
> use to  Voldy, but if it kept him occupied and out of mischief, or
> even induce him to make a mistake, then it's useful.
> Are you 100%  certain he got rid of the Stone? I'm not.

Laura:

Oh, no!  Another fact in doubt?  I may need to double my 
medications...:-)