OoP - GUILTY Dumbledore (was Dumbledore's true sorrow motives)

[arrowsmithbt]

No: HPFGUIDX 80251

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "jwcpgh" <jwcpgh at y...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Kneasy
> > Sirius' idea of happiness would be for Harry to become as rash and 
> > unthinking as himself or James. Make the big gesture Harry!
> > 
> > Laura:
> 
> Well, now, that's just not supported by canon.  The two of them are 
> constantly telling each other to be careful, and I think they mean 
> it.  When Sirius expressed disappointment with Harry early in OoP, it 
> wasn't because Harry wouldn't take chances but because he wouldn't 
> let Sirius take one.
>
Hum. Whenever Sirius tells Harry to be careful, always in the back-
ground, spoken or  unspoken is "But  James wouldn't." Sirius
claims to care for Harry, but really I wonder if he wants Harry to
be his proxy; "I wish I could do it, but they're stopping me. Such
a pity you can't do it instead." Emotional manipulation.
 
Harry does care, or thinks he cares, for Sirius. (Just how much 
experience in caring does Harry have? Ans = 0) He wants Sirius'
approval. A dangerous position to be in, knowing Sirius.
 
> 
> Laura:
> 
> When Harry asks DD questions that have to do with the overall 
> picture, DD shuts him down (starting in SS/PS, when he could very 
> well have begun to tell him *something*).  So expecting Harry to be 
> able to think strategically about a situation he doesn't understand 
> is not very realistic, imo.

Kneasy:
Exactly. It is not Harry's job to think strategically. He is not ready. 
He is not trained. He has to learn to progress step by step. The
prophecy does not say that Harry will defeat Voldy, it says  one 
or the other will win. Just now, Harry stands no chance against
him (witness fight in MoM). He is totally  outclassed. He has to  
learn much, much more.  Posters  keep harping on the idea that
the conflict of wands means V can't get Harry. It also means Harry
can't get Voldy. It's a two way street. DD has a plan, we're told.
Why can't Harry accept that?


> Laura:
> 
> Don't you think, though (well, maybe *you* don't, cynic that you are 
> <g>)that it's possible to have an intuitive understanding of someone 
> soon after you've met them, and the details get filled in later?  
> I've certainly had that experience. 

Kneasy
Ah! Romance! That all-pervading rosy glow that reduces reason to
a whimpering irrelevence.
Being a cynic (and proud of it), I've had enough unfortunate experiences
to be aware that the details are what matter. "What a wonderful person,"
you think, so sympathetic. Then you find they eat pickled onions in bed, 
are a stranger to the concept of truth and insist that I must become a 
Vegan to cleanse myself of my maleness. Help!
First impressions are good - at first. They require confirmation asap.

Laura:
> And Sirius didn't need to know Harry in intimate 
> detail to form accurate surmises as to what Harry would do and how he 
> would react in a given situation-and he tends to be right.  He knows 
> what it's like to be an impulsive, emotional teenager.

Kneasy:
Too  true. He's never stopped being one himself. Sirius is emotional,
he  is impulsive, hence the 'showdown' with Peter. He'd  never change.
I've stated before that I think Sirius is suffering from a form of
survivors syndrome. He feels guilty that James and Lily died and he 
didn't;  he's looking for absolution, for forgiveness, for restitution.
But being the person he is, he thinks only in terms of action. By
sitting in Grimmaud Place moaning about doing nothing, he is
inducing a mind-set in Harry - the only true response is to act.
Very dangerous in an impressionable, admiring teenager.

Laura:
> Which brings me to a question-why didn't DD just get rid of the globe 
> the way he got rid of the stone when it got to be a liability?   

Kneasy:
No firm opinions  on this one. Could be that he knew it was of little
use to  Voldy, but if it kept him occupied and out of mischief, or
even induce him to make a mistake, then it's useful.
Are you 100%  certain he got rid of the Stone? I'm not.