[HPforGrownups] Re: The magic power of love. Was: BANG! You're dead!

[Laura Ingalls Huntley]

No: HPFGUIDX 80415

Del:
> As for wanting to save the world, I don't think he thought as far as
> that. He just didn't want the bad guys to steal something from DD.
> Remember : originally, he didn't come to fight Voldemort, but Snape.
> And even when he gets the stone, he still thinks he's only fighting
> Quirrell.
> <SNIP>
> I personnally think that at that moment, Harry hasn't yet
> realized that LV would go as far as killing him to get the Stone.
> He's just an 11-year-old boy, and kids that age can't imagine that
> someone would kill them. He's survived all the abuse from the
> Dursleys, so it's kind of logical that he's not too afraid of LV.

*sings* WRO-ONG!  ^_^ Let's take a look at SS/PS, American Edition, pg.  
270:

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------------------------------------------
"I'm going out of here tonight and I'm going to try and get to the  
Stone first."

"You're mad!" said Ron.

"You can't!" said Hermione. "After what McGonagall and Snape have said?  
  You'll be expelled!"

"SO WHAT?" Harry shouted. "Don't you understand?  If Snape gets hold of  
the Stone, Voldemort's coming back!  Haven't you heard what is was like  
when he was trying to take over?  There won't be any Hogwarts to get  
expelled from!  He'll flatten it, or turn it into a school for the Dark  
Arts!  Losing points doesn't matter anymore, can't you see?  D'you  
think he'll leave you and your families alone if Gryffindor wins the  
house cup?  If I get caught before I can get to the Stone, well, I'll  
have to go back to the Dursleys and wait for Voldemort to find me  
there, it's only dying a bit later than I would have, because I'm never  
going over to the Dark Side!  I'm going through that trapdoor tonight  
and nothing you two say is going to stop me!  Voldemort killed my  
parents, remember?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
------------------------------------------------

So, from this here very illuminating bit of canon, I'd say not only  
does Harry go after the Stone to prevent *Voldemort* from destroying  
the world (or at least Hogwarts ^_~), but that he is also quite aware  
that Voldemort will kill him even if he *doesn't* try to defend the  
Stone.

And I don't quite understand why you would say that Harry thought he  
was only fighting Quirrell, anyway.  Voldemort had been revealed to him  
at this point -- in fact, when Quirrellmort first starts coming at  
Harry, it's with Voldemort's face to the front.


> Again, DD was the only father figure Harry had at that time. So what
> he said to Riddle is a bit like : "no, you're not the best. My daddy
> is !!"


uh...If you say so.

>> So it's Harry's own action that invoke Fawkes' help. This of course
>> totally leaving aside the fact that Harry was there to save Ginny,
>> whom he didn't even particularly know very well.
>
> Hum, I wouldn't take that as such a good point for Harry : it's a big
> sign of his hero / saving people complex. Basically, Harry thought he
> was big enough to save Ginny (or whoever for that matter) on his own.
> I mean, he *could* have gone and requested help from McGonagall of
> whoever, but he didn't even think of it.

Harry and Ron *tried* to go to Lockhart (who was *supposed* to be  
searching for Ginny) to tell him where to look.  Of course, Lockhart  
wasn't actually going to try to save her -- but neither were (from  
Harry and Ron's perspective) the other teachers.  Anyway, I'm not sure   
  *I*, at least, could expect them, once they'd wrested control from  
Lockhart, to go traipsing around the castle looking for *another*  
teacher to help them.  I'm quite impressed they spared the time to go  
to Lockhart in the first place, honestly.


>
> Loyalty, yes. Bravery, hum : his actions border on foolishness to me.
> Basically, he's never run into his limits. He hasn't learned that he
> isn't all-powerful in the magical world (how could he ? He *did*
> defeat LV twice). So he's intimately convinced that he can win over
> anyone in a fight. As for compassion, I don't think so. As I said
> before, he doesn't care much about Ginny, it's more to do with
> playing the hero.
>

I don't think Harry is *playing* at anything.  He perceives that  
someone is in trouble, and he instinctively tries to help them.  Yes,  
maybe this is indicative of a hero complex, but hardly a bad or  
dishonorable thing.  I mean, even when Hermione brought it up in OOTP,  
I didn't get the impression that she thought Harry's "saving people  
thing" was a negative trait, just that Voldemort might be trying to use  
it against him.


> As for compassion... Well, he did show something towards Peter, but I
> wouldn't call it compassion. He wasn't trying to save Peter, he was
> trying to act noble towards his father's friends. Basically, what he
> said is : Peter is such a lowly character, he's not worthy of your
> becoming murderers. So what he showed towards Peter was disdain, a
> total lack of consideration. Served him well, by the way.


Again, I don't think he was *acting* anything.  I don't think Harry  
makes decisions based on impressing the people around him.  He spared  
Peter because, when it really comes down to it, he's too good of a  
person to murder a defenseless (if despicable) person.


> And how does that make him any more special that a 13-year-old girl
> who's completely lost any hope in life, who doesn't think things will
> ever get better, who suffers horribly every single day of her life,
> but who won't commit suicide only because she doesn't want to "do
> that" to her mom and sister ? Maybe I didn't save the world, but I
> think I displayed pretty much all the qualities you quoted above. But
> I don't think you'd me consider a hero, would you ? In the same way,
> I don't consider Harry a hero : he is he, he's got his own qualities
> and faults, but he's no greater that anyone else. In fact, no one is
> greater that anyone else, because there is no absolute scale to
> measure people.
>

Oh, some people would definitely consider you heroic, in a sense.  ^_~   
I think the idea that Jo is trying to present is that heroes are normal  
people who manage to act extraordinary in the midsts of extraordinary  
events.

And besides....he killed a *basilisk* with a freaking *sword*. ^_^ If  
he doesn't get to be a Hero, does he at least get the  
Knight-In-Shining-Armor distinction?

Laura (who is hoping that this email goes through and is formatted  
alright, as she recently had to switch email addresses and operating  
systems)

P.S.  Um...yeah...here goes the second try.

P.P.S. ...and the third try.