The magic power of love. Was: BANG! You're dead!

[Doriane]

No: HPFGUIDX 80452

> Del:
> > As for wanting to save the world, I don't think he thought as far 
> > as that. 
> > <SNIP>
> > I personnally think that at that moment, Harry hasn't yet
> > realized that LV would go as far as killing him to get the Stone.

Laura :
> *sings* WRO-ONG!  ^_^ Let's take a look at SS/PS, American Edition, 
> pg.  270:
(SNIP very good quote)
> So, from this here very illuminating bit of canon, I'd say not 
> only  does Harry go after the Stone to prevent *Voldemort* from 
> destroying  the world (or at least Hogwarts ^_~), but that he is 
> also quite aware  that Voldemort will kill him even if he *doesn't* 
> try to defend the  Stone.

Okay, okay :-) You're perfectly right, I must admit it. Though if I 
were nasty, I'd say this disproves the selfless hero image...

> And I don't quite understand why you would say that Harry thought 
> he was only fighting Quirrell, anyway.  Voldemort had been revealed 
> to him at this point -- in fact, when Quirrellmort first starts 
> coming at Harry, it's with Voldemort's face to the front.

But had Voldemort revealed himself already when Quirrell demands the 
Stone from Harry before attacking him ? I don't remember too well, 
sorry. What I meant is that when Harry went through the trapdoor, he 
thought he was "only" going to fight Snape, not LV. And when he 
discovers Quirrell, he doesn't realize right away that Quirrell is 
carrying LV around with him.

> Harry and Ron *tried* to go to Lockhart (who was *supposed* to be  
> searching for Ginny) to tell him where to look.  Of course, 
> Lockhart wasn't actually going to try to save her -- but neither 
> were (from Harry and Ron's perspective) the other teachers.  
> Anyway, I'm not sure *I*, at least, could expect them, once they'd 
> wrested control from Lockhart, to go traipsing around the castle 
> looking for *another* teacher to help them.  I'm quite impressed 
> they spared the time to go to Lockhart in the first place, honestly.

Personally, I was very puzzled, the first time I read the book, to 
see Harry and Ron going to Lockhart. I thought they would have known 
that a) he wouldn't even go searching for Ginny, and b) he would be 
useless anyway even if he did. It's only when the Memory Charm 
incident happened that it all made sense to me : "Ah, it's to keep 
Ron back, so Harry has to go and fight alone".
But anyway : why would they think that no other teacher would go 
looking for Ginny ? Even if the teachers "officially" turned that 
task over to Lockhart, it was obvious to me that all the others would 
keep trying to figure out where she was. When a student goes missing, 
*all* the teachers have a duty to look for her.
Moreover, Harry and Ron were the *only* ones in the whole castle who 
knew where to look for Ginny. If they had been killed on their rescue 
mission, nobody would have been able to find any of them. I find it 
at best irresponsible and at worst horribly stupid not to tell any 
teacher what they knew and where they were going. Imagine that your 
kid knew where another kid who was kidnapped is being held captive. 
Wouldn't you expect your kid to tell someone (you, the police, 
whoever) what he knows ? If he went and freed the kid on his own, 
wouldn't you lecture him about how irresponsible and stupid it was to 
go all alone, no matter how good a job he did, how heroic he is ?

> > As for compassion, I don't think so. As I said before, he doesn't 
> > care much about Ginny, it's more to do with playing the hero.
> 
> I don't think Harry is *playing* at anything.

I didn't mean playing as in having fun. I meant playing as in playing 
a role, as in having a distorted vision of reality, as in believing 
that he's the only one who can do things right.

> He perceives that someone is in trouble, and he instinctively tries 
> to help them.

Most of us would also react like that, don't you think ? That's not 
compassion, though. 

> Yes, maybe this is indicative of a hero complex, but hardly a bad 
> or  dishonorable thing.  I mean, even when Hermione brought it up 
> in OOTP, I didn't get the impression that she thought 
> Harry's "saving people  thing" was a negative trait, just that 
> Voldemort might be trying to use  it against him.

It's not a bad trait in itself. But it gets bad when it leads him to 
believe that he's a cut above others and that he can dispense with a 
healthy amount of caution and with listening to others' advice.

> > As for compassion... Well, he did show something towards Peter, 
> > but I wouldn't call it compassion. He wasn't trying to save 
> > Peter, he was trying to act noble towards his father's friends. 
> > Basically, what he said is : Peter is such a lowly character, 
> > he's not worthy of your becoming murderers. So what he showed 
> > towards Peter was disdain, a total lack of consideration. Served 
> > him well, by the way.
> 
> Again, I don't think he was *acting* anything.

Almost everyone I know is acting something, but that's another 
matter :-)

> I don't think Harry makes decisions based on impressing the people 
> around him.

I think he does, unconsciously. He doesn't want people to think he's 
this or that, he won't admit his fears or weaknesses, etc... Neville, 
on the other hand, doesn't care about impressing anyone. Neither does 
Luna. And Harry doesn't hold them in too much esteem, precisely 
because they speak their heart and mind openly and freely.

> He spared Peter because, when it really comes down to it, he's too 
> good of a person to murder a defenseless (if despicable) person.

No, he showed that trait when he couldn't bring himself to kill 
Sirius that same night. But at least he tried, at least he hated 
Sirius, because Sirius was a strong opponent. But Harry felt only 
disgust for Peter, he didn't hate him, because he didn't feel he was 
a worthy opponent.
Moreover, do you realize that once again he showed complete 
disrespect for others' feelings ? Because he, Harry, didn't care 
enough about Peter to kill him, he wouldn't allow Sirius and Remus to 
choose for themselves whether or not they wanted to kill him. What 
right did he have to do that ? Remus and Sirius were at that moment 
feeling one of the worst kinds of betrayal there is : one of their 
intimate friends had pretty much killed another friend. How did Harry 
dare telling them what to do ?

> I think the idea that Jo is trying to present is that heroes are 
> normal people who manage to act extraordinary in the midsts of 
> extraordinary events.

Absolutely !!! That's precisely why I don't agree when people try to 
convince me that Harry is so incredibly wonderful, that he's a cut 
above all others. He's not. He just has good opportunities to make 
use of his talents, a cold head, good wits and reflexes, and a great 
deal of luck. He's good, but he's not exceptional.

> And besides....he killed a *basilisk* with a freaking *sword*. ^_^ 
> If  he doesn't get to be a Hero, does he at least get the  
> Knight-In-Shining-Armor distinction?

Oh ! A Knight-In-Shining-Armor, that he is, for sure :-) A bit too 
much for my taste, even :-) As for being a Hero, he is that too. But 
he's not "better" than anyone else. You know, Malfoy is a Hero too. 
Not for you and I, but if our values were the same as his, we'd 
worship him for his daring attitude, his cunning, his knowledge, his 
perseverance, etc... He's just as much a Hero as Harry, just not to 
the same people.

Del