Harry a Hero? Was: The magic power of love.

[slgazit]

No: HPFGUIDX 80642

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Doriane" <delwynmarch at y...> 
wrote:
> In Harry's case, he doesn't want Ginny to be dead both because 
> it'd be a sad thing of course, but also because it would mean he's 
> failed in trying to save her.

Do you think he'd have gone to the Chamber of Secrets and risk his
life to save Parvati Patil (just an example...)?

Ginny is a girl he knows and likes, but views her as a little
girl. Being 12 he is probably quite embarassed that she has a
crush on him so he avoids her. Boys this age don't care for
girls romantically yet. But she is part of his "adoptive" family,
his best friend's sister and, I strongly suspect, set up for
a future romantic relationship with him (sigh, I think Hermione
is so much more suitable...).

> If I may say so, you have no idea what kind of environment I grew 
up 
> in. In fact I grew up thinking and feeling like I had to take care 
of 
> myself emotionally

I did too. I had a very miserable childhood, to be frank. But I'll
take mine any time over what Harry has to go through...

I am sorry you had it so rough.

> And now that I think of it, I'm not sure I'd have done much 
> differently than Harry... Ouch !! I'm bringing my whole point down 
> myself !!

:-)

> Do you notice the pattern here ? Harry is afraid of not doing well 
in 
> school or in competition, because he knows others can be just as 
good 
> as he is.

No, he constantly thinks he is less good than what he really is. He
has low self esteem and blames himself for everything
(not surprising in a kid raised in an abusive environment).

> But when it comes to saving the world, he's not afraid of 
> taking on the whole task on his own, because he's intimately 
> convinced that he's the best there is,

No, because he feels that the task is alloted to him in view of
his direct involvement/impact as the main protagonist and target
of Voldemort. He also does not want others to get hurt.

> Look how reticent he was about bringing Neville, Luna and Ginny 
> along to the DoM : he knew they weren't as good as he for the job, 
so 
> why bother ?

He did not want them coming because he did not want them to
risk their life for an endeavour that was intensely personal. He went
there to rescue his godfather. He knew he could well be killed.
It is perfectly understandable that he does not want people who
are not involved and whom he does not know as well to come with him.
He does muse on the fact that they are not very good for the job -
because then they may become a liability. He really does not want
others to get hurt.

> But I am aware, of course, that he knows he's the only one who 
could 
> defeat LV. That's bound to distort anyone's self-image.

He did not know that when he went to the MoM.

> Only when it comes to saving-the-world. He doesn't mind asking for 
> help from Hermione where school or competition is concerned.

It is true that he trusts his two best friends. It's adults that
he avoids asking for help.

> ?? He did have the power to kill him. Or at least he *thought* so, 
> though we know he couldn't have killed Sirius with magic (what 
spell 
> to use ?) But he chose not to.

I don't think he had the power to kill him, or rather, he did not
have the mental makeup to become a killer (as is shown in his
duel with Bellatrix later on).

> > and he wanted - for once - to let the authorities handle the 
> > punishment.
> 
> And get Sirius officially cleared of all charges ! *That* was the 
> main reason he wanted to hand Peter to the authorities for.

What is the difference? He was looking for adult authorities to
mete out justice. They failed miserably.

> He didn't intend to ask for help. Quite the opposite actually. He 
> intended to demonstrate to the authorities that they had been wrong 
> all along but that thanks to him and his friends, they were now 
able 
> to correct their mistake. That's not asking for help.

Why do you present his desire for justice as an attempt to show off?
I saw no indication of that. He just saw proof that the godfather
he thought as murderer was innocent and of course wanted to set
things right for him. What decent person wouldn't?

> Hermione does that too, but somehow she doesn't strike me as being 
> presented as a hero.

Hermione is my favorite character in the series and I admire her
greatly. But her strength is analytical and the quest for equality
and justice, not heroically saving the world. And she is not
usually in danger for her life and sanity the way Harry constantly
is - unless she chooses to help him.

> why Harry and not Hermione, not Neville, 
> not Luna or Ginny ? They are all doing exactly the same, more or 
> less.

No. They are none of them facing the same threats, both external
and internal. They did not lose their parents to a murderer who
tried to kill them as babies. They have not faced the same
challenges as he has and when they did, they did not do as well
as him.

>As for the "being faced with challenges that noone else had", 
> remember how it was when you were a kid and a teen : deep inside, 
you 
> were convinced that noone, ever, had been through the trials you 
were 
> facing.

Yes, but that is definitely true for Harry, it's not a subjective
evaluation of a teen. Even Dumbledore says that.

> I'll state it once again : I don't see that his DADA skills are so 
> exceptional. So he practiced the Patronus Charm for months and he 
> finally managed it ? Not such a big deal.

No? He practiced it at age 13 in front of a dementor (ok, a boggart
dementor). He had to keep his head and make himself feel happy enough
to produce a complicated spell when faced with a being whose
very presence drains one of all happy feelings and (in his case)
causes him to lose consciousness fairly quickly. I think this is
quite remarkable. His DA students 2-3 years older than he had been
when he studied with Lupin, and only Hermione and Cho managed the
spell - when they were *not* facing a dementor. I think it is
quite an achievement.

>So he practiced additional 
> charms and hexes with Hermione for the Triwizard Tournament, so 
that 
> now he knows more than the other kids ? Again, what's the deal 
here ?

That he was able to apply them creatively under extreme pressure
situations. Isn't that what defence is all about? It's not what
you know but how well you use it when you need it.

> > lots of courage
> 
> In the heat of fire, yes. But when it comes to planned events, he's 
> just as afraid as anyone : he was almost fainting with fear before 
> the first task of the Tournament.

Courage is the ability to overcome your fear and proceed anyway -
not the inability to feel fear.

> No, but he *was* lucky that Fawkes was there to turn the Basilisk 
> blind. He *was* lucky that his sword went through the roof of the 
> mouth of the Basilisk as he intended it too, *and* that he wasn't 
> killed instantly while doing it. *And* also that the Basilisk tooth 
> tore off. Though I'll admit I would never in a million years have 
> thought of using it to destroy the Diary :-)

The point there and pretty much throughout the series is that while
he has luck, the only reason that things work out for him is
because he is ready to fight and continue when seemingly all hope
is lost. Faced with a basilisk, a junior Voldemort and no wand,
99 out 100 people would have just given up.

> As I said earlier, he *knew* he was going to manage it, and he'd 
> practiced the spell a hundred times, and he couldn't feel the 
> Dementors' influence from where he was, and he had a very strong 
> motivation to succeed this time, so it wasn't such a hard thing to 
do 
> anymore.

My suspicion is that the strength of a Patronus reflects the power
of the wizard who produced it. His Patronus scared away 100
dementors. Only a very powerfull wizard could have done that,
regardless of the circumstances.

>Now if he'd managed to scare them off the first time around, 
> then I'd have been convinced that this boy is something special 
> indeed.

And the story would not be half as convincing. It would make no
sense that a kid who could not overcome a single boggart-dementor
during private sessions with a teacher, will suddenly scare away
100 of the real things.

> > win the Triwizard tournament,
> 
> He did get a lot of help on that one, and Cedric did just as well 
as 
> he did.

All champions got a lot of help - it was very clear that Karkaroff
and Madame forgot-her-name helped their students, and Cedric
got help from Harry and Moody (and perhaps others we don't know).
The other champions were 3 years older also.

> > survive Voldemort or the DE's in the MoM.
> 
> The others managed that too.

They all fell pretty quickly, and they weren't the target in the
first place.

> Cedric : he did just as well as Harry, but he had no luck, LV 
didn't 
> need him. Had LV decided to kill Harry first, he could not have 
done 
> anything to prevent it.

Voldemort could not kill Harry until after he got his body back
with the protection of Harry applied to him as well.
Actually we don't know that he can do so now, do we.

>Cedric literally didn't see his death coming, 
> so what could he do to prevent it ?

Nothing, but how would he have fared in a duel situation? My
guess is not so well. I doubt he could have survived. We'd never
know of course...

> Oh, but I *do* have a lot of respect for Voldemort. He made morally 
> wrong choices, but other than that he's admirable. So much work, so 
> much endurance, so much determination... But of course, if I got a 
> chance to rid the world of him, I'd do it right away. Whaddayamean, 
> he's not for real ??? ;-)

Well, the story would not be so interesting if Voldemort was a
laughable vilain, now would it... :-)

> I do too. I'm just annoyed that he's given so much more respect 
than 
> any other character in the books, when so many other characters 
> deserve at least as much respect as he does, and could be just as 
> good heroes as Harry, if they were the ones the bad stuff was 
> happening to.

As I said, my favorite character is actually Hermione, not Harry.
They all have their strong points. But it's Harry who has to deal
with the bad stuff, not the others...

Salit