MAGIC DISHWASHER (TBAY INTRO): Spying Game Philosophy - The Phoenix must die

[urghiggi]

No: HPFGUIDX 81020

Pip!squeak said:
> Voldemort must be beaten. But `merely taking your life' is not 
> enough. He must be defeated. Like Hitler, the whole of the UK WW 
> must understand that Voldemort must be defeated. That not only must 
> he  be defeated, but that what he stands for must be defeated. Must 
> believe it so wholeheartedly that they will eventually be prepared 
> to let their entire society be changed beyond recognition if only it 
> will defeat Voldemort.
> > The Wizarding World must be prepared to destroy itself in order to 
> defeat Voldemort and all his kind for ever. Those who oppose what 
> Voldemort stands for must fight those who support his ideas. 
> > 
 and none will come after 
 [one of the broken prophecies in the 
> Dept of Mysteries].
> > No more Dark Lords. Never again.


Urghiggi replied:
This is a well-argued and highly convincing analysis. (And it's so LOTR -- =
can 
you say "we must DESTROY the ring, we can't just HIDE the ring?") JKR's 
looking more and more like an Inkling to me every day, and Dumbledore's 
looking more & more like Gandalf, pulling the same "we have to overthrow th=
e 
world order" kind of strings.....

Your analysis explains a lot, in particular Ddore's "big picture" orientati=
on, his 
dogged ignoring of Harry in OoP, his willingness to work outside the existi=
ng 
(corrupt) governmental structure, and his curious statement in the climax o=
f 
OoP that just killing LV would be unsatisfying to him. Of course those with=
 a 
subversive big-picture orientation can end up using the "little people" as =

pawns in support of their grand design, which is why JKR's always showing 
the razor-edge challenge of Ddore giving the pawns lots of individual choic=
es, 
all the while subtly deploying them in support of the Big Goal.

This view also sheds light on D'dore's comments in OoP that loving Harry to=
o 
much was going to screw up his grand plan and end up getting a lot of other=
 
folks killed. Because of course the easy choice, if you love Harry that muc=
h, 
and if you're indeed capable of doing it, is to GET RID OF LV before he can=
 
kill the kid you love--and the faceless masses who will be menaced by futur=
e 
Dark Lords, be damned. This is hard to understand w/o your analysis; easy t=
o 
understand WITH your analysis. If your goal is wholesale reform of the wiz =

world, for the greater benefit of the underdogs everywhere -- you can't let=
 
yourself love Harry that much. ("We can't hide the Ring for a few generatio=
ns, 
we have to DESTROY the Ring for all time.") Of course, we as readers are 
meant to identify with and love Harry and want to see him survive, which 
creates a great source of literary/emotional tension.

This also would justify that frustrating sense of inertia that others have =

mentioned before in OoP -- we have all this "harry angst" plot and meanwhil=
e 
there's a sense that LV's not DOING anything and that D-dore's also not 
DOING anything. In other words, little sense of forward motion in the "figh=
t LV" 
plot. BUT if D-dore's primary goal is a revelation that's going to force th=
e entire 
WW to take sides, then the hand-sitting makes sense. 

Your analysis also supports the argument (IMHO) of those who say JKR's 
writing out of her religious background -- the whole notion that some 
principles are so important they're worth turning the world upside down for=
. 
Certainly the notion that existing WW power/social structures are 
irredeemably corrupt and need to be overthrown, even it it requires a sacri=
fice 
that cracks the world open rather than short-term stopgaps, harmonizes with=
 
the idea that the powerless of the world (tax collectors, whores, fishermen=
) are 
worth a dimension-cracking sacrifice.

But I digress. I can't wait to look at these books again with your 
philosophy!glasses on my nose. You are a genius, in or out of TBAY.... Buil=
d a 
new boat, I'm coming aboard.

Urghiggi, chgo