Spying Game Philosophy - The Phoenix must die! My part II

[arrowsmithbt]

No: HPFGUIDX 81381

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "msbeadsley" <msbeadsley at y...> wrote:
> <This is part two from where I had to stop Saturday afternoon>
> 
> 
> Sandy realtime:
> Contrast Voldemort's demeanor with Dumbledore's: every time we have 
> seen Voldemort he is agitated, threatening, punishing; in other 
> words, just chewing the scenery and *performing,* always with his 
> audience in mind. He is always bent on how menacing he has to seem. 
>snip>
>(The use of "You-Know-Who" has devolved into nothing more 
> than pop culture lingo. All that silly theatrical gasping 
> over "Voldemort." 
> 
> Anyway: what *is* behind not saying VOLDEMORT? (Is this like 
> Lovecraft's YOG SOTHOTH? To speak his name is to summon him and lay 
> waste the universe?)
>
Kneasy:
Of course! He's a shy retiring lad who's been told he must assert himself
more. No point in  being Ace!baddy unless  everybody knows  it. 
Actually, I'm a bit puzzled by the name avoidance myself. It doesn't
make a lot of sense to me. (Now if he was a bit more Lovecraftian, an
island rising from the sea, obscene nameless shapes twisted into another
dimension, slime and Voldy! Add the Necronomicon for luck....It would be
worthy of David Langford.) 

> 
> Sandy realtime:
> I'm thinking as an amateur psychologist here again. Voldemort "likes 
> giving orders, waving his wand about." (What would Freud have said 
> about *that*!) What does that say, that grasping and manipulating of 
> power? What is behind it? Isn't the guy who holds the reins tightest 
> and feels the need to wield the quirt the guy who's afraid of the 
> horse?
>
Kneasy:
Control yourself! 
Go and  lie down in a darkened room! 

>  
> Sandy realtime:
> I don't know any Turks. ;-) But I take it you're saying that while 
> neo-Nazism is verbotten, crimes against ethnic/national origin groups 
> are still rampant? How very sad. I will have to go look for info on 
> this.
> 
 Kneasy:
Despite the best intentions, monitoring child behaviour, etc, etc, prejudice
still  happens, in *every* society. Even in non-human species. Watch what
blackbirds do to an albino sport - it's not pretty. Certainly  among animals
any but minor differences are rarely tolerated; if they aren't killed outright 
they don't get a mate in the breeding season. The gene  line dies.
We look for differences; it is a way of identifying the group and non-group
members. It  is instinctive; what we have to do is kick  in the intellect and
realise it doesn't matter in most  cases. (Some physical  signs do, they are
indicators of inherited diseases. Not good  for our own gene survival) 

> Sandy realtime:
> The old families feel they don't count anymore. They used to be 
> lauded and feted just for their pure blood. Look at what happened: 
> Lucius was forced to divest the Malfoy manor of precious antiques due 
> to those nasty raids. And influence? He is forced to hand over chunks 
> of the family fortune to work his will these days; why, it amounts to 
> nothing less than blackmail. The WW has come to the sorry pass that 
> pure blood just doesn't matter anymore. Look at poor Draco: he tries 
> so hard and yet his teachers still favor the Muggle-borns and 
> Mudbloods. Everyone knows Fudge has no real power. Look at how he has 
> to try to manage things by frantically putting Ministry spin on 
> everything in sight; every single story The Daily "Profit" prints is 
> a clarion call for spineless jellyfish everywhere to float together. 
> Voldemort is a man of the people, the real people, the pure-blood 
> people, the only hope of those masses who feel the earth eroding 
> under their feet as the new elite, who trumpet superiority though 
> egalitarianism, gain more ground every day. The world is awash in 
> filth (just ask Mrs. Black) and how is anyone to live, to breathe? 
>
Kneasy;
Nurse! The screens!
Calm down, it'll be alright; just take deep breaths.
I  don't think things have changed all that much in the WW. It's much 
the same elsewhere; old families have the money and money talks. 
I'm also waiting for canon evidence that all old families are the same.
It implies much, but then I wonder, isn't DD old pureblood? Also the
Weasleys, the Diggorys? Moody? Just  how big is this 'elite' anyway?

 
> Am I on my side of the argument *now*? I can turn it inside out again 
> if you like ;-) Er, if you don't, I mean. Furthermore--I am *way* 
> more familiar with Pip's example (at least the broad strokes like the 
> name "Hitler" and the fact that there was, er, one of those big 
> numbered wars) than I am with your moldy old Roman whosis. So there. 
> <g>
> There is actually another, very relevant Voldemort/Hitler 
> correlation: he was chosen by those who would have him lead them 
> because they thought he would give them what they wanted, what they 
> thought they needed. What they ended up with was something very 
> different from what they jumped on board for. (Eh, Regulus?)

Kneasy:
Mouldy old Romans. (shudder). I forgive you, just. Maybe. Perhaps.
The thing about the Junkers was that they'd already got what they wanted;
land, influence, position, authority, money.  
It was the other way round, in the thirties Hitler wanted *them* as a sign
of approval and acceptance. To show he meant something. 
> 
> 
> Sandy realtime:
> You said, essentially, that a change in regime didn't matter to the 
> common people, that only the coinage would be different. I'm saying 
> that sometimes a war is worth having even though there are victims. 
> When,  after you have the war, some of the people who *were* victims 
> under the regime you toppled *are* better off. Or did you not imply 
> what I inferred? <bg>
>
Kneasy
Ah! Sorry I didn't pick it up. Yes. True. Now predict which ones it'll be.

> 
> Sandy realtime:
> Actually, *I* never suggested a managed succession at all. I 
> suggested that Dumbledore would not be leaving the WW without 
> candidates who *have* merit. You seemed to be envisioning a power 
> vacuum and that's what I was addressing.
> 
 Kneasy:
Very definitely. There usually is. Heroes get medals, not  Ministry posts.
Those who stayed at home polishing paperwork decide on how jobs 
are distributed, and they're not for troublemakers. (Thank you for
your application, Mr Potter, we appreciate what you did and all that,
but we feel the WW needs a chance to put all those unfortunate events
behind us. You, frankly would be a reminder. Next!)


> 
> Sandy realtime:
> I am on an HP board where all list members are HP characters; Mrs. 
> Malfoy has been *very* affectionate with Mr. Malfoy lately; 
> naughtily, I have had a "post-family fortune laid waste" racy movie 
> acting career in mind for the Mr. and Mrs.
>
Kneasy:
No, please, not Latex Lucius, the Master of the Magical Appliance!