Dumbledores Philosophy (was MAGIC DISHWASHER...)

[arrowsmithbt]

No: HPFGUIDX 81706

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Iggy McSnurd" <coyoteschild at p...> 
wrote:
> 
> The basis for the theory, however, stems from a few things:
> 
> 1 - Love as a solution and salvation seems to play an important part in
> JKR's world.
> 

Kneasy:
I'll  contend this point. Yes, we have seen love, as manifested by Lily, DD
and Sirius mainly. As a solution? Probably Lily  *only* and then in 
desperation and panic. Sirius  tries to  use it as an emotional lever to try
to get Harry to match his expectations of what James' son should be and
DD uses it as an all-purpose excuse for actions that  cause distress.
Salvation? There's a large consensus that  this  was the cause of Voldemort's 
retreat from possession in the Ministry, *but* why didn't the same expulsion
of Voldy from Harry's mind also  take place when he was given the vision of
Sirius in peril? Wasn't  it love of Sirius that sent Harry on his mission? 


Iggy:
> 2 - There's been an issue made of the nature of Harry's protection, and why
> Quirrel was destroyed by it because LV could not bear the touch of love.


Kneasy:
Yes, Harry has protection. But the theory that it is 'love' is purely the
invention of listees. I've no doubt the protection was placed 'through' or
'because'  of love, but that is  not  the same thing.


Iggy: 
> 3 - There is a philosophy that, to sum up, states that what a thing does not
> posess in the slightest is that thing's bane.  LV posesses no love, and he
> doesn't understand it, therefore it's his bane.  (It's like water having no
> fire in it, yet fire can evaporate water.  Fire has no water in it, yet
> water can douse a fire.)


Kneasy:
Specious argument. By flipping that reasoning and looking at it from
the other  direction, Harry  cannot  defeat  Voldy because he also  has 
feelings of anger and hate. Because he has them, he cannot be their bane.
Where is this all-embracing love that Harry is supposed to have?
Who does Harry love? Anyone, now  that  Sirius  has gone? There's no
evidence of  any. Harry  is  fighting to stay alive, to do so it seems that
he must defeat V. The defeat of V will save the world, but to Harry that
is a bonus, not the  main objective of his fight. 
The only viable 'love' interpretation, IMO, is love of life, which is a class
apart from the  kind of love that  most posters seem to embrace.
It's the personal as opposed to the general that Harry is concerned with. 


Iggy:
> As for forgiveness being the most demeaning of insults... Yes, it is to
> those who do not wish to, or care to, be forgiven.  But if one has the
> smallest spark of remorse within them, the tiniest bit of true regret or
> love for themselves, then I don't think it's an insult.
 
Kneasy:
The insult is to those who  feel their hatred or emnity is justified.
Suppose Voldy turns up at a meeting of the Order one day and says
"You  hate me, but I forgive you." What would be the response? A mad
rush to  get their wands out, I expect. With strong feelings of outrage
and "How dare  he!" 
It would not change  the situation one iota, the war would go on. 

Every fight has at least two sides but few look at the others viewpoint. 
I always like to encourage the baddies in their depravity. 
A 'good' baddy  is  hard  to find.