[HPforGrownups] Re: Acceptable Abuses?

[Dolies]

No: HPFGUIDX 95773

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com,
"dumbledore11214" <dumbledore11214 at y...> wrote:
> Do you know what bugs me? I don't mind Sirius and
> Snape having a go 
> at each other. They are big boys after all, they can
> handle it. But 
> all time during their meetings Snape seems to ahve
> an upper hand. 

Yup and that feels wickedly good. 

> You can say that this is a carmic justice for Sirius
> for how he 
> treated Snape as a child, but if you take this
> position, you can 
> surely agree that Sirius paid for his sins more than
> enough. 

It is sad to read Sirius's fall like this, as his
"punishment" as if you suggest this is how JKR's
justice system works. 


 > Who said that being angry at Snape's behaviour
makes him less 
> interesting to read for me? 
> Maybe it is alien concept to to you, but to me it is
possible to 
> despise whatever the character does and still enjoy
the said 
> character as part of the story.

No I totally understand, as I can tell from your posts
contribute to this group, as majority of them are
Snape-posts. How you must hate yet care so much about
this character. I think this is a common reaction (or
almost default) for many readers.  I've noticed in
other online discussion group Snape threads tends to
generate lots of discussions because he tend to
generate conflicting emotions and reactions. The more
the merrier~~ ;)
 
> Snape as Dostoevsky anti-hero? Please! I grew up
reading and loving 
> Dostoevsky work and Snape is so not there yet, IMO.
> Snape is a mystery, but mystery does not equal
complexity. Once 
> Snape's motivations will be revealed, as someone
said earlier I 
> sincerely doubt that Snape will still be considered
that emotionally 
> complex character. I think that his motivations will
be crystal clear 
> tot he readers.

Here's where we differ: you repeatedly insisting that
Snape is neither complex nor ambiguous, his motivation
is as obvious, scream out loud simplistic
black-and-white because it's just pure unapologetic
simple-minded hate. And I disagree with that view, so
let's leave it as that. I do not find him THAT
mysterious either, as I think I figure him out as
close to the truth I think I can.

> Those pranks are funny? Sure, I laughed when
Crouch!Moody turned 
> Draco into ferret. It did not stop me though from
thinking that 
> teacher should not behave like this.

Laugh my ass off here, so what if it's wrong and
inappropriate? Half of the crazy things happening in
the book are inappropriate but wickedly fun. I enjoyed
twins' teasing of Percy for taking himself too serious
but as many posters pointed out here how hurtful they
are. I totally share Harry and Ron's feelings here.

Hmm...I know better now that in this list at least, it
seems sinful to admit if you enjoy reading Snape's
abusive classroom behavior. But I really do laughed
everytime!  Always reminds me of my teachers, oh I
missed school~~

> Let me ask you a question. Did you laugh when you
read Pensieve scene? 
> It is possible, you know to have several different
reactions to the 
> same scene.

Nope can't laugh at all because it's quite disturbing
to see the heroes fallen at their worst (I hope that's
their worst). Fallen  heroes at their ugliest are
what's most disturbing for me (sorry, not abused poor
helpless innocent little children). I completely share
Harry's feeling right there.
  
> Am I angry when Snape humiliates and hurts Neville
and Harry? You 
> bet! It is the same kind of anger I felt when Milady
Winter poisoned 
> Constance in "Three Musketeers" It is the same kind
of anger I felt 
> when  I want any vilain in the book to get his dues.

So would you say part of your anger toward Snape
oriented from Snape never get his dues? If he gets his
dues properly in every book you'd feel it's more just
and do not hate him as passionately? What IF there
isn't really any satisfying due for Snape at the end?
What would you think?

> Huh? No, I don't want child services appear in the
book, but I want 
> villains and semi-villains to get their dues in the
STORY, I am sure 
> JKR will come up with the suitable device to do so.

There were some discussion on whether JKR let the
villains getting their dues in a dirty-heroic way,
such as Umbridge-Centuar, Ferret bouncing and giant
slugs. Some people say they are mean spirited. yeah I
can see how it is mean spirited but boy how I enjoy
them! Whatever it is coming for Dursley, Snape,
Percy...etc. bring it on!

D.