Re: Ancient Magic – sacrifice, blood-protection and such (very long)

[Jen Reese]

No: HPFGUIDX 96246

Lilian:
> PoA pg. 311: `This is magic at its deepest, its most 
impenetrable
..'
> 
> There are three types of ancient magic that we know of in the 
books 
> so far:
> 
> 1)	Sacrifice;
> 2)	Blood-protection;
> 3)	Life debt.
> 
> As these have been discussed a lot lately, but always separate 
from 
> each other, I decided to compare them. In doing so I noticed that 
> these types of ancient magic have a similar trait. DD gives us in 
> OotP (pg. 737) an important clue with regard to this:
> 
> `I thought,' said Dumbledore, inclining his head slightly, `that 
she 
> might need reminding of the pact she had sealed by taking you. 
'
> 
> So 
 Petunia sealed a pact. If we look at all the three forms of 
> ancient magic, can these all be considered as pacts? Let's see.


Jen: Very interesting post, Liliana! We have so little to go on with 
ancient magic, and it's one of the most compelling parts of the 
story. I used to think the Goblet of Fire and its 'binding magical 
contract' was ancient magic as well, but I'm rethinking that. It 
seems that *consenting* to the pact is a very important part of the 
process, and Harry is chosen and must compete without true consent.

Liliana:
> Next, based on that [sacrifice]pact, LV had to spare Harry. But LV 
broke the 
> pact immediately after it was sealed. LV broke the `laws of magic' 
> involved with the pact. Not the written laws of magic, the legal 
> system, but the unwritten laws of magic.  

Jen: This 'unwritten law of magic' seems to be a higher imperative 
and, I believe, synonymous with ancient magic. It is what Dumbledore 
ascribes to in his own affairs, and is outside the bounds of human 
Ministry laws. We see many everyday spells that consist of one 
person casting a spell directed at an object or a person, and we see 
a specific result (or not). But then we're presented with a few, a 
very few, examples of magic that create a *bond* between two people. 
It's a much deeper form of magic than two people casting spells at 
each other. 

I've argued before that the Fidelius is ancient magic for this 
reason, but that's never stated, so I can't prove it :). We also 
have examples of Dark Magic that create a bond between people, but 
it isn't a consensual. Stated examples are the Diary and LV's 
rebirthing potion--both involved people who didn't consent to the 
pact. 

In the examples of ancient magic, all the bonds are consensual--
Wormtail begs for mercy and accepts Harry's intervention, thus the 
debt is created--he could have chosen to die instead; Lily begs for 
LV to take her instead of Harry and accepts being killed, thus the 
charm is cast--she could have chosen to let LV have Harry (I know, I 
know, that's entirely unlikely, but it *is* a choice she has); 
Petunia is asked to accept Dumbledore's request to keep Harry,and 
consents--thus sealing the charm. (There is dissension whether 
Petunia is doing this of free-will or force by DD, but I tend to 
believe in her heart-of-hearts, it's her choice. I don't think the 
blood protection would work if she didn't freely choose this on 
*some* level.

Liliana:
> Can pacts be transferred to third parties?
> The information that we have with regard to this question is 
> limited. If we presume that blood is an identifying factor in 
these 
> types of ancient magic, than all that can be said is that if Harry 
> owns a life debt to someone, LV now owns that life debt too. As he 
> shares the same blood as Harry, he will be identified as a party. 
> In the case of blood-protection, this is not a transferral of the 
> pact of sacrifice bu an entirely new pact. Although the pact is 
made 
> possible because of the blood connection between Lily, Petunia and 
> Harry. 

Jen: I don't have much to add here, but JKR did address this briefly 
in the World Book Day chat:

MauraEllen: "Did the debt Wormtail has to Harry carry over to 
Voldemort when he sacrificed his arm to restore his body?"

JK Rowling replies -> "No. Can't say any more than that!" 

So, not much information, but we can be assured that particular debt 
wasn't transferred. I think it has to do with no 'informed consent' 
on LV's part in that situation. It can't be transferred to LV if he 
doesn't know what's coming his way.

> All my humble opinion of course,
> Lilian

And a good one, too ;).
Jen