Mandrakes and The hand of glory

[earendil_fr]

No: HPFGUIDX 96290

> > Earendil:
> > I don't know what a mandrake root looks like in the RW, whether 
it 
> > looks more like a hand or a human body. But we all know for sure 
> > that a mandrake root in the WW looks like a human/baby body. So 
I 
> > suppose any connection between mandrake and the hand of glory 
would 
> > be fortuitous.
> 
> Alshain:
> If you're still following the thread, Earendil,

Earendil:
Sure, I still am! :-)

> Alshain:
>  here's an idea about 
> what a mandrake root looks like in real life: 
> http://www.alchemy-works.com/mandragora_autumnalis.html
> 
http://www.lycaeum.org/languages/finnish/psykoakt/kuvat/mandrake.gif
> http://www.mind-surf.net/drogas/mandragora.htm
> (Note: M. officinarum and M. autumnalis are two different 
varieties)

Earendil:
Thanks for the links! And you're right, it doesn't really look like  
a human nor a hand.

> Alshain:
> BTW, JKR didn't add the lethal shriek either 
> (snipping explanation)

Earendil:
I have to admit I didn't know about that. As I said in my previous 
post my knowledge about botanics - and I might add about any kind of 
associated folklore or beliefs  - is poor. Thanks for enlightening 
me.

> Alshain:
> How sure do you need me to be? Of course it can't be proved beyond 
> any doubt that 'mandragore' was corrupted to 'main de gloire' and 
> later translated to 'hand of glory', you can't do that with 
> etymology, folklore and history. 


Earendil:
Hmm ok, I think I might need to clear up what I meant in my post. 
But let me quote your original post first.

Alshain wrote:
The Latin name for mandrake is Mandragora Officinalis. In the French
vernacular, 'mandragore' was corrupted to 'main de gloire' 

Earendil again:
Of course I know it can't be proved for certain that 'mandragore' 
was corrupted to 'main de gloire'. But my point is that in your 
original post, you made it sound like you had strong reasons to 
believe it was, and that you were rather sure of it (that's how I 
percieved it anyway). BTW, if you *do* have reasons to believe so, 
please be kind enough to point me to some place where I could have a 
look at them.

Anyway, all I was trying to do in my post was to add my own 
knowledge of the French language to state that, at least to my 
knowledge (or rather lack thereof) and to the one of the more 
knowledgeable friend I had handy, 'mandragore' and 'main de gloire' 
were not connected in the French language (and I still believe so). 
I'm not talking about etymology here, nor history or folklore (see 
paragraph below).

I'm not familiar with the word 'vernacular' (well, who am I kidding? 
I didn't even know that word and had to go find a translation in a 
dictionary) so maybe I'm wrong in assuming it basically 
means 'common language', and as wrong to believe you meant 
that 'mandragore' is more commonly known as 'main de gloire' in the 
French language (which, as far as I know, it isn't, and according to 
the 2 dictionaries and the encyclopedia I checked it really isn't). 
Sorry if I misinterpreted.


> Alshain:
> But I think this is a reasonable 
> assumption -- they have the same connection to the gallows and 
some 
> connection with being used in treasure-hunting.

Earendil:
I'm not emmiting any doubts about that kind of connection. If you 
want to make a connection between mandrake and the hand of glory 
using *this* kind of similarities (gallows, treasure-hunting or 
anything else that fits), I'm totally fine with it. But again, in 
your original post the very first connection you made was about the 
*names*, as if it was the one thing that had you try to find other 
similarities. Had it been the other way round and had you mentioned 
these first, I probably wouldn't even have replied to your post, 
thinking you could be right about the names as well and not taking 
the time to check for myself.

> Alshain:
> She exaggerated the 
> mandrake's faint resemblance to a human body for humorous purposes 
> IMO

Earendil:
I totally agree with that! :-)


Earendil, who hopes she managed to make herself clearer.