Just a thought concerning Lily (Breeding)

[justcarol67]

No: HPFGUIDX 96838

Chelle wrote:
You have to take into consideration that the muggle idea of 'Courtly
Love' was still rather new. Love and its theories did not exist
before the 14th Century. <snipped discussion of arranged marriage>
 
I (Carol) responded:
I'm not sure what you mean by this statement or how it relates to HP.
True, the courtly love tradition is purely medieval, but love itself
is a natural human emotion that has probably existed from the
beginning of the species. <snip stuff on the Greeks>. I agree that
arranged marriages probably occur in the WW, but only between
purebloods, not between Muggles and Wizards. It's possible that the
Malfoys had an arranged marriage yet still in their snobbish
pureblood way love one another and their son. Courtly love, IMO, has
nothing to do with it, and in any case, the object of courtly love was
generally a woman married to another man. ,snip>
> 
KAT/rxk (same person as Chelle??) wrote:
> (Sorry_I can't quite think of a way to snip this & make my point)
Regarding the phrase "Courtly Love", I think people misunderstand it.
"Courtly Love" was practiced by the European aristocracy around the
Middle Ages, seen most notably in the Camelot mythology. 
> "Courtly Love", was, in fact, adulterous in nature (and sometimes
literally so). A knight would seek the favour of a lady other than his
wife; if accepted, he would wear something of hers-a scarf, or
handkerchief, etc.-tied on his helm, gauntlet, or other pieceof armour
and display it during a tourney. The knight would then be considered
the lady's "champion", while she would be his Lady of Inspiration or
Queen of Beauty, etc. <snip> "Courtly Love" was NOT a display of
romantic courtship-leading-to-marriage. Rather, it was a display of
performing impressive acts/cheering on impressive acts all for the
reason of showing one's "nobility" by showing willingness to perform
acts/give favour to someone one had no LEGAL obligation to. <snip>
It's useful to remember that the married couples would have been the
product of arranged marriages; as long as they performed the duties
required by thise mostly business arrangement (producing heirs and
attending to the business of marrried life) the rowess or attraction
of one's spouse would have been thought of as a benefit to increase in
social standing. Overlooking quietly carried-out love affairs was not
hard since the couples would not have been insulted by the idea of
"outside activity" as it would not have been taken as a personal
affront-indeed, the spouses might well have "cared" for each other,
been friends and partners, but probably not romantic lovers...and
there would have been no question of losing your spouse since divorce
was well-nigh impossible. <snip>
> Hence, when people refer to "Courtly Love" what they are really
talking about is the modern, "marry-for-love" rather than to insure
some kind of material benefit. 
> 

Carol:
Yes, I know about the courtly love tradition, having studied it in
grad school and I'm well aware of the distinction between it and our
modern ideas regarding romantic love (which I'm guessing are shared by
the Weasleys and the Potters and most other WW couples). What I don't
see is the connection between courtly love and the WW or how it would
fit into the Harry Potter books (whose intended child-readers *might*
know about knights jousting for the honor of a "fair lady" whose scarf
was tied to their lance, but that's as far as their knowledge is
likely to go--and I don't see how the children would make a connection
between knights in armor and Harry Potter, setting aside the suits of
armor in the hallways). As I said earlier, I do see the possiblilty of
arranged marriages for the pureblood "aristocracy" in the WW, but not
what amounts to institutionalized adultery. Also, as I said earlier,
it's entirely possible to love your partner in an arranged marriage in
our modern sense of the word, which is also the usual sense of the
word in most societies. (We could get into the distinctions that the
Greeks made between eros, philia, and agape, but I don't think that
will help us here.) Even Lucius Malfoy probably loves Narcissa and
vice versa in a snobbish and possessive way. IOW, I'm trying and
failing to see your point--how knowing the courtly love tradition
(which I'm already familiar with) help us to understand the HP books.

Carol

Carol