The Problem with Lupin (long) was Re: How Close Are Harry and Lupin?

[naamagatus]

No: HPFGUIDX 96989

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "pippin_999" <foxmoth at q...> 
wrote:
 
<snip> 
> 
> Pippin:
> > <snip> 
> > > If Snape had found his way to the Shrieking Shack during the 
> > > prank, he *would* have encountered a fully grown werewolf.
> 
> Naama:
> > But Lupin didn't entice Snape to the Shack - it's not his action 
to 
>  be remoreseful about. He is horrified to think of the 
> consequences -  in the same way that I would be horrified to 
> think of running over  somebody, even if it's completely not my 
> fault.
> 
> Pippin:
> This is my point. Lupin only allows himself to relate cause and 
> effect about things that either didn't happen or weren't his fault. 

But in your original post, this was one of your examples of Lupin 
feeling remorseful about something that might have happened. I was 
countering this by pointing out that he is not expressing remorse in 
this instance.  

You blame him for being remorseful about things that might have 
happened, but not about things that he did do. You give three such 
instances:
1. Various types of mischief he *might* have done when roaming the 
grounds with his friends. 
That is simply an untenable argument. It's pure speculation on your 
part, and therfore unfalsiable. 
2. He wasn't sorry for having forgotten to drink the potion. 
I think that is subsumed under his remorse at the danger he posed 
when he transformed. Since he is harmless when he takes his potion 
properly, he removed himself from the school because he fears that he 
might again forget or for some other reason not take the potion.  
3. He did not tell DD about Sirius being an Animagus.
I've explained in my previous post what I think about this. In any 
case, contra to your argument, he is very remorseful about this. 

In short, I think your analyses of his character is just plain wrong. 
He isn't overly remorseful about what might have been, and is quite 
properly remorseful of wrong things that he did do.
 
> Naama:
> > Right. I have to say this - Lupin not telling DD about Sirius 
> being  an Animagus is the weakest part of the PoA plot. <snip>
> 
> > I've said it several times before, so why not once more? JKR 
> isn't really very good with mystery plots. It doesn't make sense 
for 
> Lupin  not to have told DD, in the same way that it doesn't make 
> sense that  Crouch was able to fool DD for ten months. The 
> solutions feel  contrived, even when they are not flat out 
> unreasonble - both in PS  and CoS the revelation that Quirrel and 
> Ginny are possessed by  Voldemort feel flat, of the "the butler did 
> it" type. Except in OoP,  the solution never feels inevitable (the 
> way it does in Agatha  Christie). I prefer this simple (though 
> disappointing) explanation  rather than read against the grain* of 
> Lupin's characterisation. <<
> 
> Pippin:
> This gave me one of those "Are we reading the same books?" 
> moments. That we're in for improbable events is obvious as 
> soon as Vernon spots Minerva in cat form, reading a map. 
> Implausible feats of concealment are the raison d'etre of the 
> wizarding world.  JKR takes full advantage of this in her plotting, 

But the improbabilities I am referring are of a different kind. When 
Harry and Ron transformed to Crabbe and Goyle, they kept their own 
personalities. Therefore, regardless of the magical transformation 
part, it's highly improbable that in ten months DD wouldn't sense 
that his old friend Moody has had a personality transplant. As for 
Lupin, the reasons he adduces for not telling DD are psychological, 
not magical (he wasn't bound by some magical oath, for instance). And 
the psychological reasons he gives are *unreasonable*, whether in a 
magical setting or not. 

<snip>
> 
> Lupin doesn't appear evil in Harry's eyes, but  ESE!Lupin goes 
> against the grain of his characterization only if you think that he
> is not only basically good (JKR says everyone is) but basically 
> incorruptible.  

But nobody is incorruptible. I think JKR is making exactly this point 
when she had Harry cast an Unforgivable. The question of good and 
evil is about choice. Which side do you choose and to what degree of 
dedication. According to your theory, Lupin has chosen the dark side 
long ago. Long ago he had betrayed his ideals. In JKR's world, he is 
therefore evil now. But he is charaterised *now* as a good man. 

Having said that, I think that JKR might very welll have a noble 
character betray his ideals. However, for it to be effective, it must 
happen now, not be revealed as having happened long ago. 


Naama