Renegade goblin (was: The Ghoul in the attic)

[meriaugust]

No: HPFGUIDX 97036

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Susan Miller" 
<constancevigilance at y...> wrote:
> --- meriaugust wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> > 
> > I'm not sure if any one else necesarily had to be 
> > involved for Quirell to attempt to steal the stone. He was, 
after 
> > all, working closely with LV (though Lord Thingy wasn't residing 
in 
> > his head yet). LV could very well have helped Quirell master 
some 
> > dark spell that would have helped the Prof. get past the 
security 
> of 
> > Gringots. 
> 
> Now me (Constance Vigilance):
> 
> Reject my Redeemed!Quirrell if you want. Reject ESE!Bill. But 
canon 
> specifically says (SS/PS US edition, page 76): "If anyone but a 
> Gringotts goblin tried that (opening the vault), they'd be sucked 
> through the door and trapped in there," said Griphook.
> 
> I'm not buying that there is any other way to get into the secure 
> vault. It would not have been stated so directly if it were not 
so. 

Meri jumps in again: No, I get that there is only one way to get 
into those high security vaults, and I figure that Quirell was 
probably sucked in, just like the security measures ensure. But, 
since they only check the high security vaults "about every ten 
years" for intruders, then, IMHO, some sort of alarm system must 
have gone off when Quirell (probably using LV's dark magic) broke 
*out* of the vault, after discovering it was empty. The goblins 
wouldn't really need any entry alarms, as they don't care about you 
once you're in there. That's just the way I've always pictured it 
happening.  

Constance Villagance continued:
> Voldemort wasn't attached to Quirrell at that time, so he wasn't 
at 
> the break-in. Besides, he's not real good at curse-breaking, else 
he 
> could have gotten the prophecy much earlier.

Meri again: I don't see what curse breaking has to do with LV 
getting the prophecy. The obstacle there, IIRC, was furtiveness: LV 
couldn't just stroll into the DoM and pick it up. I haven't read 
OotP since Christmas (and if I am wrong about this please feel free 
to let me know) but I always just thought it was in the nature of 
the prophecy that the only people who could touch it are those it 
pertains to, not through some curse or external spell. And if you 
are refering to the Sorcerer's Stone above (as I just thought you 
might be), there weren't just curses defending the stone at the 
school: there were physical defenses (Fluffy, Devil's Snare) and 
logical and technical obstacles as well (the chess set, the potion 
puzzle), plus the fact that DD is there watching everything. IMHO, 
LV being able to train a follower to break out of Gringots is a 
testament to just how powerful a wizard he is, even as Vapo!Mort. 

Constance Viligance: Hmm. Who do we know who 
> IS good at curse-breaking? Could we be back to ESE!Bill? 

Meri concludes: I checked the old posts and reread some of the ESE!
Bill threads, and I still just don't see it. There isn't, IMVHO, 
enough cannon to back it up. Great, almost fascinating, speculation 
and deduction, but not enough cannon. 

Meri - fully prepared to eat her words should JKR say otherwise