Neville's future role/Evil!Neville

[hickengruendler]

No: HPFGUIDX 97206

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "Meredith" <msmerymac at y...> 
wrote:
 
> 
> Many people, including me, believe the marauders and the trio-and-
> friends share many similarities, and that Harry and his friends 
> parallel Harry's parents and their friends. IMO, Harry=James 
> (obviously), Ron=Sirius (loyal, adventurous best friend), 
> Hermione=Lupin (academic, follows rules more often), Draco=Snape 
> (slytherin nemesis of the hero), Ginny=Lily (this, of course, is up 
> for speculation and all I'm really going on is the red hair/green 
> eyes, and the possibility of a H/G ship). Where does that leave 
> Neville? Why, he's Wormtail, of course!

Hickengruendler:
I always disliked that theory. Not only, because I love Neville and 
don't want him to become evil (but I admit, that this is also the 
case), but also because I never saw any foundation for these 
comparisons in canon.

Harry = James 
Since when? Before OotP, I could have understood the comparison, 
because we didn't know much about James, and I must admit, I, too, 
imagined him to be like Harry. But there was never any proof in canon 
that he really was. No, in OotP, we learn that James was much more 
arrogant, than Harry so far ever has been. I do not think the 
pensieve scene shows us, that James was the devil incarnated, but it 
did show us IMO, that James and Harry as youths are pretty different. 
I am not even sure they would like each other, if they were the same 
age. Just to add: Harry has Lily's eyes. And the eyes are often said 
to be the mirror of the soul, so maybe he is more like his mother. 
But that's just speculation, because we don't know enough about Lily 
so far.

Ron = Sirius
That's the comparison I never really understood. Just because both 
are best friend of a Potter? What else have they in common? Sirius is 
arrogant and brilliant. Ron is average and has problems with his self-
esteem. They are very different. Besides, can you imagine Ron sending 
Draco to a werewolf, because Draco annoyed him?

Lupin = Hermione
Well, they are both bookish. Otherwise Lupin is calm, gentle and not 
able to stand up to his friends. Hermione is loud, annoying but 
willing to defend her position, even if it makes her unpopular. They 
are like day and night, really. I think characterwise Hermione is 
closer to Sirius, only that she doesn't like breaking the rules.

Ginny = Lily
I don't know. We don't know enough about Lily to compare her with 
anybody. Both having red hair surely is not enough to compare them. 
In the pensieve Lily acted in a way I can see Ginny acting as well. 
But we don't really know.

Draco = Snape
Again, they are only compared, because they are enemies of a Potter 
and Slytherins. You have seen Snape in the pensieve. Did he remind 
you of Malfoy?

Neville = Peter
and know it comes. Neville is as different from Peter as you can be. 
The only similarities are, that they might look a bit alike, both 
being a bit chubby and all, and that they are not that good in magic. 
However, Peter followed the Marauders around. All the time. Nevile, 
on the other hand, always remains for himself. You even said it later 
in the text. When James and Sirius attacked Snape, Peter stood there 
watching with glee. When Ron fought Malfoy, Neville jumped on both 
Crabbe and Goyle, to help the friend. Could you see Peter doing this? 
Could you see Peter standing up to his friends like Neville did in 
PS? Peter cowered in front of Voldemort, because he was afraid to get 
killed. Neville defended Harry against 10 Death Eaters, although he 
was practically helpless. He even urged Harry not to give them the 
Prophecy, when Bella wanted to Crucio him. Without a doubt the 
ruciatus Curse is the Worst Unforgivable from Neville's point of 
view. And yet he was willing to take it for Harry and the greater 
curse. Him being Avada Kedavrad would be less of a sacrifice than the 
end of OotP, because he is more afraid of the Cruciatus Curse. And 
where, tell me, is Neville really like Peter? 
  
> Although the group is friendly with Neville, he never breaks 
> into their circle the way Hermione does after the troll incident on 
> Halloween, or Luna does in OotP, or even the way Ginny does in CoS, 
> and then again in OotP. 

Why do you think Luna broke into their circle and Neville did not? 
When exactly was Luna around when Neville wasn't? Only at two 
moments: The one was when Harry gave Rita the interview, and Luna was 
there because her father runs the Quibbler. The other moment was at 
the very end, when she told him her belief of the Afterlife. But they 
met only by accident. Harry even thought about avoiding her and then 
realized, that he didn't have the energy. In fact, the five people 
who share a compartment on the way back to King's Croos are Harry, 
Ron, Hermione, Ginny and Neville. No Luna. Don't misunderstand me, I 
love Luna more than any other of the characters who are introduced 
after book 1, but to say that she is included more into the group 
than Neville is downright wrong. In fact, I think the charm of both, 
Neville and Luna, is, that they are sort of outsiders. Ginny was in 
book 2 never a part of the trio. She was in book 5, though.

>In fact, in SS/PS Harry does not want to be 
> teamed with Neville in charms: (SS, pg 170-171, American paperback 
> [Halloween]) "Professor Flitwick put the class into pairs to 
> practice. Harry's partner was Seamus Finnigan, which was a relief, 
> because Neville had been trying to catch his eye." By OotP, Harry 
has 
> still not come to totally trust Neville or his abilities.

Of course not. Because Neville is clumsy and not the best wizard. But 
in the DA it was Harry, who trained with Neville. Of course, Neville 
was the one, who was left, but Harry could have made him train with 
Ron and Hermione from the beginning. He did not. He suggested that 
Neville could train with him. Besides, Harry is a normal teenage boy, 
not a saint. We don't have to find everything he did the right thing 
to do.

> When in the 
> Forbidden Forest, Neville, Ginny and Luna want to accompany H/R/Hr 
to 
> London. Although Neville is in the same year as the trio, Harry has 
> huge doubts about his abilities. He also called Neville the most 
> forgetful wizard he knows (CoS pg 86, American paperback [Gilderoy 
> Lockhart]) "Neville was a round faced and accident prone boy with 
the 
> worst memory of anyone Harry had ever met."

Well, both is true. Harry didn't trust Neville's abilities, because 
Neville, no matter how much he improved, is still not the best 
wizard. He didn't trust in Luna and Ginny's abilities either, and I 
don't think it's important that they are a year younger, because 
almost everything they learned, they learned in the DA. Therefore in 
DADA they have all learned the same. Although I must admit, "you are 
to young" was mentioned by someone to Ginny. And Neville is the most 
forgetful wizard Harry knows. So why shouldn't he call him that? I am 
sure after the fight Harry's opinion about Neville has changed, 
because it was Neville, who saved his life, in stabbing Hermione's 
wand into MacNair's eyes.

> Neville 
> accompanying the trio to the MoM is also a parallel (albeit a weak 
> one) of Wormtail tagging along with James and Sirius when they 
became 
> animagi. Yes, he did it, but I think Peter was trying to fit in. In 
> Snapes worst memory James and Sirius seemed to ignore Peter for the 
> most part, and probably would have been just as happy to leave him 
> behind if he had never become an animagus, and continued their fun 
> without him. At the same time, Peter was obviously idolizing James, 
> and even Sirius and Lupin to a lesser extent.

No, James did not ignore Peter. James was happy Peter was around, 
because there was somebody who worshipped him. And Neville 
accompanying them to the ministry is not a prallel, because Peter was 
around them all the time. Peter was a part of the group. He was even 
that close, that Sirius chose him and not Lupin as the real secret 
keeper.   
> 
> Now onto Neville's life. First, there is a theory that Neville is 
> forgetful because he had a memory charm placed on him so as not to 
> remember his parents being tortured. I don't know if I believe 
this, 
> since Neville obviously knows his parents were tortured.

And what has the one to do with the other? Of course Neville knows 
his parents were tortured, he visits them regularly. It is as if I 
would say: "Neville can't have a memory charm, because he knows 
Hogwarts". I am not sure if Neville really has a memory charm, 
though. Currently I tend to doubt it, too. But I do think it's at 
least pssible.
  
> It 
> would be beneficial to Voldemort to have Neville in his back 
pocket, 
> just in case the prophecy really IS about him. 

In this case it would be way more beneficial, just to kill Neville. ;-
)

> People 
> have wondered why Neville is in gryffindor rather than, say, 
> hufflepuff, sicne there doesn't seem to be anything remarkable 
about 
> him. Showing his bravery by standing up to Voldy would prove him to 
> be a true gryffindor. 

And that's what I really don't understand. Yes, Neville is not the 
brightest and most capable wizard, but Gryffindor is about bravery:

Neville proved he was a Gryffindor countless times:
1. He fought Malfoy's gorillas single-handed
2. He stood up to the trio
3. She sneaked out of his dormitory to warn Harry and Hermione 
because of Malfoy and Norbert.
4. He admitted that it was him, who lost the passwords. He didn't 
have to.
5. He visits his parents several times, without even complaining to 
anybody about his "hard life". Imagine what Wormtail would have said 
in his place: "Sirius, have mercy. You know about my parents".
6. He faced the Cruciatus-Curse, the curse that drove his parents 
insane to help Harry.
7. He fought the Death Eaters.

What else should he do, to prove that he is a Gryffindor? Compare 
this to what we know Dean, Seamus, Lavender or Parvati or even Percy 
and the twins and Ginny have done. Being brave doesn't mean you don't 
have to be afraid.

Hickengruendler, who hopes it doesn't sound to rude (it really isn't 
meant to), but Neville is one of three characters, where I feel very 
defensive of.