What's in it for Snape? Finding motive...

[potioncat]

No: HPFGUIDX 97207

> vmonte wrote:
>snip<  
You also hear Snape tell Harry: 
> "Fools who wear their hearts proudly on their sleeves, who cannot 
> control their emotions, who wallow in sad memories and allow 
> themselves to be provoked so easily - weak people in other words - 
> they stand no chance against his powers!  He will penetrate your 
mind 
> with absurd ease, Potter!" (OOTP)
>  
> It seems to me that Snape is the one who wallows in his sad 
memories -
>  why else would he remove them from his mind before teaching 
Harry? 
> And did he have control over his emotions when he realized that 
Harry  saw them?  

> Sigune: 
>snip> 
> Then again, if Snape is talking about himself in the quote above, 
why  would he do so? It seems like admitting a personal weakness, 
and that  seems (so far) slightly out of character (to me). And it 
would mean he was being really, really helpful to Harry, would it 
not? Now that is interesting in itself... I should reflect on it 
further...

Potioncat joining in:
Well, I do think Snape is trying to help Harry and I think he's 
referring to his younger self.  Although, I don't think Snape 
realises how often his own heart is on his sleeve now. Snape is not 
a warm-and-fuzzy teacher.  He was using the method he prefers to 
teach Harry.  "This is how it is kid, learn it." I think he 
sincerely wanted Harry to learn.

As for control over his own emotions, he did have control over the 
surpise invasion of the thoughts in his head.  But as for the ones 
in the pensieve: Snape had just returned from taking a student to 
the hospital wing. A student who was the victim of a vanishing spell 
and was now seriously injured.  He finds a another student has 
disobeyed and remained in his office, prying into personal 
belongings. The particular scene Snape joins him in, is very 
painful.  So I wouldn't consider that particular 
episode to be an example of wearing his heart on his sleeve. 


> snipping one post
Signue:
> What I find much more probable is that Snape would have sought out 
> dear Voldy as a teacher. Snape is ambitious. And Voldy, however 
>evil, IS a great and powerful wizard. 
snip

Potioncat:
I think you are right. Not to mention that quite a few of his 
friends are in this group.  Snape would see it as a way of advancing 
his own agenda.  And Snape experienced a lot of "badness" from the 
anti-Dark Side. 
> 
>> Sigune:
> Yes, I think that this bondage every DE seems to be in would be 
the 
> main reason for Snape to turn away from Voldy. It makes sense with 
> my 'teaching theory': Voldemort is not the kind of person who'd 
gain 
> knowledge in order to impart it to others. I think he'd teach his 
> followers a few snippets, and 'useful' things like the 
Unforgivables, 
> but keep the really deep and powerful stuff to himself - he does 
not 
> want to create a competitor for himself. Snape would feel cheated 
at 
> that, and turn to someone who DOES have a mind for teaching, 
Voldy's 
> only equal in power: Dumbledore.
> 
> I seem to be the only one on this list who attaches such 
importance 
> to knowledge and teaching in Snape's motivations... But he IS a 
> teacher, after all (could he not have found another job,...
snip

Potioncat:
This is an interesting point.  I thought that Snape was teaching 
because it was his cover, not that he would choose to teach.  So 
this is something to think about.  At any rate, while he is a 
teacher, he is trying to be the best he can. It is very clear in OoP 
that he is proud of his "high pass rate" on the OWLS, and in spite 
of the fact that I don't care for his methods, I think he fully 
believes in them. 
> 
> 
> vmonte:
snip
> We know by cannon that Snape is a racist! He calls Lily a nasty 
name in the penseive memory.  He would rather be hung upside down 
before allowing a mudblood come to his defense. >>


> 
> Sigune:
> Here I must disagree with you, and agree with other listees: Snape 
is 
> being humiliated; it really hurts his pride to be perceived as 
> needing help. He calls Lily the foulest name he can think of, not 
> because he is a racist but because he does not want her, or 
anybody's  help. He is just taking his anger out on her.

Potioncat:
I'm not sure which of you is correct. I know that young teenaged 
boys would rather die than get help from certain people.  Girls in 
particular and in this case, a non-pure blood.  
Having grown up in the South prior to Civil Rights, I also used 
words growing up that I would never use now. And I am not a racist. 
 
> 
>> Sigune:
snip
 I would never argue  that Snape *likes* the Order members, but I am 
sure he *does* respect them as a body, seeing how they deal Voldy 
some serious blows. And of course I cannot resist reiterating my 
firm belief that Snape  actually likes Dumbledore, in his own 
Snapish way.

Potioncat:
We see so little of the teacher interactions.  I honestly think 
there is a respect and an affection between Snape and both DD and 
McGonagall. In fact it seems to me that Snape wants DD's approval. 
Some of the conversations between DD and Snape concerning 
Black&Lupin almost have a "you like them better than you like me" 
tone to them.  (But I am suggesting any sort of family connection 
here)

These were very good, thought provoking posts and I'm sorry I had to 
snip up so much.

Potioncat