Neville and the Prophecy

[Cathy Drolet]

No: HPFGUIDX 108478

From: (Cathy Drolet) DuffyPoo:

> I think LV *was* focused on killing both kids, but at the time, he only
knew where the Potters were, thanks to Wormtail.  He'd worry about the
Longbottom kid later.  Once he was turned into vapour at the Potters, via
Lily's sacrifice, LV, knowing only the first part of the prophecy 'the one
with the power to vanquish the DL approaches...blah blah blah' is wrongly
convinced, that Harry Potter is the one the prophecy refers to.  LV, like
some of us, equates vapourness with vanquishment. Oh, if that kid did that
to me, then he must be the one.  Neville is now totally off his radar.
<snip>
LV hasn't yet figured out that if it was Lily's sacrifice that saved HP, not
anything special or 'powerful' about him, that HP may not be the one in the
prophecy at all.  It may be the Longbottom kid.  but right now, Neville, as
I said above, is totally off LV's radar, because he still believes HP to be
'the one.' <


>>charme:  I'm sorry, but I can't figure out what you're trying to say here,
other than LV may have been focused on killing both kids initially. Ok, I
buy that. The context in which you're framing your argument for Neville
"being the one" I don't buy at all, since I believe LV made his choice
initially - I believe that JKR promotes the concept that you have to live
with the decision throughout the septology. I also think that Neville is a
red herring of sorts;  I think he's important to the main plot, but vague
enough to generate this type of theory you're trying to promote.<<

DuffyPoo now:

I don't believe LV made a 'choice' initially.  Even IF he thought that HP was the greater risk, he was going to kill at least two kids, HP and NL.  Because LV was vapourized at GH, LV, mistakenly, believes HP alone fulfills the prophecy "the one with the power to vanquish".  But LV admits, later, that he forgot the power of the 'woman's foolish sacrifice.'  He knew then, at the Graveyard, that it was Lily not Harry that thwarted him, it was the sacrifice, not HP's power that saved him...and just to prove it he's going to kill Harry then and there, but then we get the Priori Incantatem thing, a quick duck around a grave stone, grab the cup and gone.  NOW more than ever, LV is going to kill Harry Potter.  Just because he's been made a fool of in front of his DEs.  NL is now totally out of LV's mind.  He's never going to consider that kid again, or the possibility that he could also fulfill the prophecy, and did, in fact, fulfill the first part of the prophecy...the only part LV yet knows.

I'm not 'trying to promote' any theory.  I've said often enough that I'm not even sure I believe that Neville is going to end up being 'the one' at the end of book 7.  All I'm saying is that Neville already fulfills the first part of the prophecy, and as long as he is alive (and untested) there is still the possibility that the prophecy does refer to him and not Harry Potter.

> DuffyPoo:
> PS - LV was trying to get the stone, that and that alone, until HP got in
the way.  He only said 'Kill him!' after Quirrill said he couldn't touch HP
to get the stone and HP wasn't giving it up freely. <snip> 
> CoS - Until Ginny told TR about HP, he was none the wiser.  The point of
the diary was to re-open the CoS not kill HP (that may not have been the
motive of LM in givng the diary to Ginny, however.)  That came after, only
after Ginny had told TR everything she knew about HP.  <snip>
> GoF - Yup, LV wanted HP and HP alone....because he is wrongly convinced,
through circumstantial evidence, that HP is the kid from the prophecy.
> OotP - LV was after the prophecy more than he was after HP.  After LV
found out he was working with dunderheads who kept saying they 'could' get
the orb when they really couldn't, he had to lure HP to the DoM to get the
orb for him. <snip> 
>

charme:  I believe that, regardless of the circumstances and actions
surrounding it, each and every instance you pointed out above LV tried to
kill Harry at the end. Hence my comment about consistency and reliability. I
also disagree with your COS point - I believe that that is taken out of
context in your view, but you're entitled to it just the same. I'm not
convinced it's canon that Ginny told TR *everything* about Harry in the
diary. If TR didn't have any memories of what he became (LV), he wouldn't
know what he was capable of, would he?  That's a very complex twist that has
no tangible reliabe basis in canon (we didn't see what she wrote or what TR
wrote back to her.)

DuffyPoo now:

Sorry, when I read you're consistently and reliably I read "he set about to" kill HP in each book and I don't believe he did, as stated above, he just ended up trying to kill him or wanting him killed eventually.  It still doesn't point to the fact that HP is the one who fulfills the prophecy, only that LV believes HP is the one.

No, we don't know what Ginny told TR, precisely, but we do have "You see, Ginny told me *all* about you, Harry, " said Riddle. "Your *whole* fascinating history," and "From everything Ginny had told me aout you, I knew you would go to any lengths to solve the mystery - particularly if one of your best friends was attacked.  And Ginny had told me the whole school was buzzing because you could speak Parseltongue..."  

charme:"If TR didn't have any memories of what he became (LV), he wouldn't know what he was capable of, would he?"

DuffyPoo again:

We haven't ruled out what LM may have or may not have written in the diary.  He obviously knew how it worked, or why would he give it to Ginny (or Harry, it that was what was initially intended) in the first place?  Or for that matter, what LV may have added to the diary himself, before it was put into LM's hands.  That aside, I think TR, at this point in his life, knows exactly where he is going and exactly what he will be capable of....he's already calling himself Lord Voldemort to his most intimate friends. (Who are that lot anyway, that's what I want to know.) Is he already planning to kill his father and grandparents? Already planning his reign of terror on the wizarding world?  Already planning to overthrow DD in some way?  

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