Chapter 24: Occlumency

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 108824

Huntergreen previously:
>>> Personally, I don't think another teacher would have had much more
luck than Snape unless they were able to convince Harry that he
*needed* the skill (which, after the Arthur/snake incident, I 
don't blame Harry for having misgivings about blocking his mind).<<<
 
SSSusan replied:
>> While I agree with you that Harry would have be greatly helped by
having someone *fully* explain why he needed to block the visions he
was having, I disagree with you somewhat about how it might have gone
with another teacher.  [snip]  As far as we know, there's no one else 
on staff capable of teaching Harry, so it came to Snape. *If* 
Flitwick or McGonagall, for instance, had been able, though, I also 
think Harry would have been more successful simply because the build-
up of angry emotion wouldn't have been there. <<

HunterGreen again:
> I definitely agree that teaching such a sensitive skill would have 
> been better handled by a teacher who Harry didn't detest (and who 
> didn't detest him better), but I don't think it would have made too 
> much of a difference. Most of Harry's failure with Occulmency had 
> to do with him not taking it seriously. <snip>
>
> Snape doesn't really tell Harry what to do, and you're right in 
> saying that Harry doesn't ask questions simply because its Snape 
> and he was not really open to questions. However, that might have 
> been because there wasn't anything more Snape could tell him. He 
> does compare occulmency to throwing off the imperious curse. If you 
> were trying to "teach" someone that, what could you tell them? Not 
> much. Its really more of practice: having the curse put on over and 
> over again until its possible to recoginize and ignore it. That's 
> sort of what Snape was doing, he was using obvious legimency on 
> Harry over and over until Harry learned how to block it.


SSSusan now:
But I think there *was* more that a teacher could have said/done, 
even if permission had not been granted to provide a full explanation 
(or if the teacher him/herself didn't know the full explanation).  I 
think a different type of teacher might have taken some TIME to help 
Harry slow down, settle down.  Snape explained THAT he needed to 
clear his mind, rid himself of emotion, but he provided no TIME to do 
this, nor [and believe me, I *can't* ever picture Snape doing this!] 
any instruction in HOW to do this.  I just think a longer period of 
introduction & overview would have been the best. I just think that 
if a teacher saw Harry getting riled up or that he was emotionally 
charged when arriving [like after seeing Cho], then a period of 
silence or even chit-chat would have helped him. Again, *no way* I 
could picture this between Harry & Snape--it's just not "them"!  But 
if it had been Harry & McGonagall?  Harry & Flitwick?  Harry & 
Lupin?  Possibly, yes.  [And, yes, I do know that this is all "what 
if" because they likely were not capable of teaching it.]


HunterGreen: 
> As for the build-up of angry emotion, I think that was necessary in 
> *actually* teaching it to Harry. Otherwise there'd be no assurance 
> he'd be able to do it outside of controlled conditions. 


SSSusan:
I argued this point a day or so ago.  *Eventually* I think it would 
have been important for Harry to study under Snape for these precise 
reasons.  But I'll argue long & hard that with a BEGINNING student, 
who doesn't even understand the "why" behind the lessons, a slow & 
gentle start works best.  Give the kid a few basic skills, let him 
try things out in a calm setting, give him some confidence that he 
understands the process a little big.  THEN bring on the big gun. :-)


HunterGreen continued: 
> The better solution would have been for Dumbledore to have just 
> told him the truth then. 


SSSusan:
And on *this* we reach an accord!

Siriusly Snapey Susan