Villainy

[naamagatus]

No: HPFGUIDX 109442

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, Barry Arrowsmith 
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:
> Dunno about you but I'm disappointed in Voldy.
> Seems to be more caricature than character.
> More cardboard cut-out than cut-throat.
<snip>
> Which is a bit surprising; JKR's pulled off a deliciously nasty 
piece 
> of work in Snape but seemed unable to go a step  further and 
produce an 
> equally convincing evil mastermind.
> snip most of post>
> Firstly -  he must have ambitions that make sense.
> Voldy needs to sort out  his priorities here.
> He wants to be immortal. ( Why? What is the point? To any thinking 
> person immortality isn't a boon, it's a curse. 
<snip>

Immortality (of various kinds) has been sought by most religions. Why 
do you suddenly find Voldemort irrational for wanting it? 
 
> snip>
> 
> According to JKR (or so I've been told) he wants to *yawn* rule the 
> world. Oh dear. No chance. In other  tales there's always this 
McGuffin 
> thingy -  a ring, an amulet, the bicycle clips of power, that 
enable 
> you to make others "bend to your will," whatever that  means. But 
it 
> generally works on a wholesale basis. Wear it and whole nations 
grovel. 
> This time there's Voldy  and a few dozen half-assed half-wits with 
> delusions of adequacy who can't even subdue half a dozen school 
kids 
> without cocking it up.

> changed order of paragraphs>

> As presented in the books Voldy isn't a world threat, he's a local 
> problem. In the 5  years covered by the books Voldy and his 
acolytes 
> have killed about 20 (if you include the 13 Muggles). Hardly 
impressive 
> from the most evil coterie around, is it? Voldy as a renegade in a 
> small, hidden sub-section of society that works on a different 
basis to 
> ours is fine. Expanding into the RW where RW systems and logic are 
our 
> everyday currency is a mistake IMO.

I'm not sure where you got your numbers from. In any case, I don't 
see the relevancy here. A successful coup doesn't necessarily invovle 
mass killings - well targeted political assasinations may be far more 
effective. And when Voldemort takes over the WW, the Muggle world 
won't present a problem. It is part of the Potterverse logic that 
Muggles and their technology are practically powerless before magic. 
Voldemort doesn't need nations to grovel before him - just the 
wizards of each nation. 

> 
> Nah. Spiteful and targeted revenge for imagined childhood slights 
is 
> one thing -  stretching it to a lust for world domination is a bit 
> much,  even in these days of ersatz pop psychology.

I find it a bit strange your talking of *imagined*childhood slights. 
You are talking still of Tom Riddle, right? His father abandonment 
was not imagined, was it? He did actually let his own son grow up in 
an orphanage, neglected, loveless and possibly actively abused. 

And what *could* cause a lust for world domination? I mean, most 
people want power to some degree, but over the entire world? Can you 
really imagine a healthy, sane person setting world domination as his 
life's goal? I disagree also with your dismissive "ersatz pop 
psychology." I read some of Alice Miller's impressive analysis of 
Hitler's and Stalin's life, and IMO there's nothing ersatz about it. 
I found it  extremely persuasive. 

> 
> So -  an outline for an evil villain:-
> 
> Understandable and/or credible ambitions that appear  achievable.
> 
> An original motivation that rings true (animus to your father 
turning 
> one into a world tyrant just doesn't hack it.)> 

You have a supernatual world, with supernatural beings in it - what 
real sense does it make if it isn't, on some level, metaphorical? HP 
(and any good fantasy story) doesn't really make sense if you fail to 
interpret it, on some level, as a morality play. Voldemort is not 
only an evil human being, he is also Evil. And you can't make a bad 
man into Evil if you give him understandable/credible motivations 
(lots of money? lots of women? you get Hugh Hefner - creepy maybe, 
but not  quite sending chills of horror down your spine). For 
Voldemort to be Evil, he has to convincingly embody the darkest 
impulses people have and fear. His quest for an immortality for which 
he pays his humanity is exactly that kind of archetypal desire/fear.  

<snip>
 > 
> If he intends "taking over" he must have some idea of why he wants 
it 
> and what he's going to do with it when he's got it. Anybody know? 
It 
> would help greatly if the reader knew what it was that Harry was 
> actually saving from his evil clutches.

He is Tyranny and Cruelty. We know that he upholds an ideology of 
wizard-blood purity. We know (from Dobby's speech in CoS) that in the 
VWI creatures such as house elves were treated worse. We know he 
stands for killing and torturing Muggles for fun. I thought it clear 
that this was what Harry was saving the WW from.


Naama