Case for Marauders (was Re: Marauders, Voldemort and the Map)

[romulusmmcdougal]

No: HPFGUIDX 109938

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "M.Clifford" <Aisbelmon at h...> 
wrote:
> Valky:
> Watch out for the quiet ones, eh? ..... 
> Well, I wonder how you explain Remus in almost the same breath 
> having said how terrified he was that his friends would *desert*
him 
> when they discovered he was a WereWolf. 

RMM:
If you are referring to the Marauders, there is no explanation
needed; 
if there were "others" meaning not the Marauders as such but other 
Gryffindors that were under his prefectorship (is that a word?), 
friendship would have nothing to do with it but his example would
have 
a great effect on others. "Hey, did you know that Lupin joined the 
DEs?"  Cool, must be a good operation, Lupin is close to DD you know."

> Valky:
> You are good at timelines so rationalise how Lord Voldemort could
be 
> a teacher at Hogwarts for me.... please... ;P 
> [sinister smirk appearing on the Fox's face]
> While still of course allowing for the DE James to have happened 
> during 6th year.....

RMM:
Right.  James probably got wrapped up with Voldemort in his 6th year.

Valky:
 and allowing Harry's birth to occur at the 
> correct time...

RMM:
Not quite following you here, but Harry would be born about 4 years 
later.

Valky:
 and also keeping a distinct and recognisable ten 
> year war in tact..... Good Luck...

RMM:
Distinct and recognisable ten year war? Don't think so.
Voldemort had his downfall in 1981.  According to Hagrid in 1991, 
Voldemort showed up about twenty years ago.  According to Sirius 
Black, Voldemort was very popular with the Purebloods at first.
So we have Voldemort showing up 1970-1971.
Gaining in popularity: 1971-1978 (Remember Sirius saying something 
about Voldemort going into hiding 15 years ago? See PoA)
War: 1978-1981.  That is a 3 year hot war.  not a 10 year war.

> 
> 
> > KathyK:
> > >  There is *nothing* to back up a claim that he 
> > > performed Dark Arts while the canon that he hated said Dark
Arts 
> > 
> > RMM:
> 
> > I think you need to establish the fact that just because James 
> Potter hated the Dark Arts that he did not perform them, before you 
> can discount what I am saying about James Potter and his performing 
> the dark arts. James had no problem doing all that illegal and 
> dangerous stuff regarding animagism.  He would be a perfect 
> candidate for entry into a higher realm of powerful magic. After 
> all, is there a class at Hogwarts that differientates for the 
> students what is Dark Arts and what is not? I believe that is left 
> with the DADA teacher no?  And if the DADA teacher is teaching you 
> powerful and impressive stuff, and he is after all the DADA
teacher, 
> it must be good right? I get the impression that James Potter
jumped 
> in with both feet and he realized only later what he was actually 
> doing and in hindsight hated the thought of what he had done.
> >
>  
> Valky:
> You are also being dismissive. 
> Of the canon "James always hated the Dark Arts"

RMM:
While he "hated the Dark Arts", this fact cannot preclude the idea 
that he did not "perform the dark arts".  That is all I am saying.  
Secondly, as he was doing borderline stuff, and proto-dark arts 
pranks, he was a prime candidate to graduate into higher realms of 
darkness.

Valky:
> For a start you need to prove that, not just any Hogwarts student, 
> but specifically, *James* didn't know what the Dark Arts truly
were. 
> This canon statement from Sirius that 'James *always* hated the
Dark 
> Arts' demonstrates in complete context:
> 
> 1 James knew what Dark Arts were from as far back a Sirius
remembers 
> knowing him. = James *always*
> 
> 2 He Hated them! = *hated*
> 
> 3 He did not confuse Dark Bloodlines with Dark Arts because this is
 
> Sirius talking....... (Sirius *is* the magnetic North of 
> demonstrating that this confusion exists. And even up to the moment 
> when choosing Secret Keepers James still was able to make the clear 
> distinction between Dark Blood-Sirius and Dark Arts-DE.) 
> = *The Dark Arts*
> 
> 
> 4 This canon is delivered in relating to the context of James 
> behaviour at the end of his 5th year by an adult some twenty years 
> later. Hence we can presume that, to some degree, Sirius accurately 
> recalls "5th year James" as being opposed directly to DARK ARTS;
and 
> knowing what they are; and not confused about what they are either. 
> = *Closure*

RMM:
And even with all that said, "hating the Dark Arts" cannot be equated 
with, nor can it necessarily exclude the fact that James performed 
Dark Arts.  You are speculating, and so am I.

> > RMM:
> > James Potter disdains Pure Bloodism?  Where does canon say that?
> > Are you, like Nora, equating Pure Bloodism with the Dark Arts?
> > Big mistake if you are.
> > 
> 
> 
> Valky:
> In Snapes worst memory for a start; 'Apologise to Evans' ring a 
bell?
> 'I'd NEVER call you a you-know-what' he says to Lily and the 
> emphasis on "never" is JAMES OWN, not mine!
> Pure bloodism does get brought up somewhere else in relation to 
> James.. but I can't find it. I recall its definately in support of 
> Kathy's claim, though.

RMM:
All one can say about James' statement to Lily is that he is not an 
extremist Purebloodite.  He may go along with some of the Pureblood 
ideas, but he certainly has no time for calling others names or
making 
them persona non grata.
It says nothing of any disdain for Purebloodism in general.

Please find that other reference for me re: James and pureblood.  It 
will certainly aid in getting to the bottom of this.

RMM