Dumbledore and Socks, Magical Contracts, and Bertie Botts Beans

[Steve]

No: HPFGUIDX 110020

--- In HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com, "arrowsmithbt"
<arrowsmithbt at b...> wrote:

dcgmck wrote:
> > [snip]
> > Dumbledore, explaining the rules for the selection of champions: 
> > 
> > "Once a champion has been selected by the Goblet of Fire, he or 
she is obliged to see the tournament through to the end. The placing
of your name in the goblet constitutes a binding, magical contract.  
There can be no change of heart once you have become a champion."  
> > (GoF U.S. pbk 256) <<


> Kneasy continues with an additional quote:
> 
> A bit of selective quoting there, because it goes on:
>
> "Please be very sure, therefore, that you are whole-heartedly
prepared to play, before *you* drop *your* name into the Goblet."
> (My emphases.) 
>
> There's absolutely no point in placing an age restriction around the 
> Goblet if some-one can put your name in for you and have it count
> as a valid entry.


Asian_lovr2:

The two quotes above are related, but they are not one and the same,
one is not a true extension of the other.

In the first quote Dumbledore is explaining the nature of the Goblet
and the tournament; subject: Goblet. In the other, Dumbledore is
addressing the students and explaining the nature of their actions;
subject: Students.

Yes, they are both related but not so related that one is an extension
of the definition of the other. The first is a statement about the
inner working of the Goblet. The second, is a generalized warning
about the students actions and the consequence of those actions.

Restated; the use of 'you' and 'your' does not define the function of
the Goblet and is among other things a reminder to the students that
putting someone else's name in the Goblet will NOT be considered a
joke by anyone. At that point, it hasn't occurred to Dumbledore or
anyone else, that an additional catagory might exist. So the chance of
one student entering another student that results in the second
student being selected is extremely slim.

Finally, it is a mistake to assume that people always speak in
absolute truths. Much of speech, both real and fictional, is made up
of generalizations, usually spoken for simplicity and clarity.
Although, admittedly, sometimes resulting in exactly the opposite.


> Kneasy continues:
> 
> You enter yourself, not drop some-one else's name into the Goblet.
> In addition, Crouch!Moody burbles on about Confundus charms with
> Harry being entered as the sole would-be contestant from a 
> non-existent 4th school, a school Harry does not attend. How can 
> such an entry possibly be valid? It can't, but DD is willing to
> pretend that it is, because it gives him an edge. He knows where 
> and when attempts will be made to get at Harry. 
> 

Asian_lovr2:

I believe JKR chose her words very carefully when defining the nature
of the Goblet. Words chosen in a way that attempt to eliminate the
very inconsistency we are discussing.

First let's look at the nature of the Goblet and it's intelligence.
Obviously, it is an intelligent magical object. It engages in
resolving a very complex task. But the nature of it's intelligence is
very specific and goal oriented. It was invented and programmed for
one specific purpose, and I don't think it has the intelligence to
engage in broad non-specific non-programmed general problem solving.
In other words, it's not equipped to solve problems that deviate from
the standard course of events. 

Now to that limited purpose-specific task oriented intelligence add a
bit of confusion; a Confundus Charm. The Goblet's specific purpose is
to select the best candidate from each catagory, which it did
faithfully. The confusion force upon it was remembering the catagories
were limited to three. 

At this point, we can also consider the possibility for the existance
of a degree of flexability in the Goblet's programming. What if a
fourth European school came into prominence? Suffciently large and
prominent that it was a contender for the competition, would they
abondon the centuries old cup in favor of a new object, or would they
reprogram it to accept a fourth catagory? Don't know; just wondering.

Back to the main point. The Goblet is a little confused, but still
capable of carrying out it's most basic program; select the best
champion for each catagory. If the slip of paper with Harry's name on
it had nothing but his name (no school), that creates a new catagory
for evaluation by virtue of the fact that it is not one of the other
three. In a sense, the catagories for evaluation have now become
Durmstrang, Beauxbatons, Hogwarts, and /other/ (or 'none of the above').

If you insist on a school name, then the name could have been "."
(period/full-stop mark) or " " (blank or space character). 


> Kenasy concludes:
> 
> Four champions in a competition for three?
> Four schools in a competition for three?
> How does the Goblet recognise a non-existent school?
> A 'contract' when the person involved has never agreed to it?
> When that person does not attend the school his name is linked to?
> When it was patently impossible for that person to put his name in
> the Goblet?
> 
> A fraudulent entry and therefore not valid. No contract exists.
> I've never liked this bit of plotting, much too threadbare.
> Maybe JKR was having an off-day.
> 
> Kneasy


Asian_lovr2:

Most of your question are answered in my explanation above. I think
JKR, foreseeing this possibility, carefully chose Dumbledore's words
so that the name coming out creates the /binding magical contract/
rather than the name going in. Since Harry's name came out, he is
bound to compete; the contract is binding. Her game; her rules.

However, while I can explain how things did work, my personal
curiousity is intensely piqued by wonder what the penalty or
consequences are for breaking that contract. 

Does the Goblet psychologically compel you to continue, sort of a
competative Imperius Curse? 

Does it turn you into a warty toad until you agree? 

That would be an interesting bit of trivia to know.

Just a thought.

Steve/asian_lovr2