Harry v. Tom (was: LV never loved anyone)

[cubfanbudwoman]

No: HPFGUIDX 110486

SSSusan:
Jeepers, I can't stop myself.  I've decided to peel a bit of this 
subject off into its own thread, and then I shall try to refrain from 
posting all afternoon and getting fired.


SSSusan wrote previously:
>> What about HARRY, then?  Some of these same feelings factor in 
for  him, too. (snip) Why doesn't HARRY go right along with the nasty 
kids?  Alternately,why doesn't Harry strut about as "Savior of the 
Wizarding World", being an arrogant berk?  Because he chose not to.<<
 
Del replied :
> There is a *huge* difference between Harry and Tom.
> Tom, on the other hand, discovered that he was the Heir of a 
> powerful but very *disliked* wizard. Slytherin was driven out of 
> Hogwarts by the other 3 founders. His ideas are supported by a 
> minority in the WW, and many of the rest outright fight them. 
> Slytherin was associated with the Dark Arts, he was a Parselmouth, 
> and so is Tom. So Tom discovered that a majority of the WW was 
> *not* going to like him for being the Heir of Slytherin : he was 
> going to be hated and despised because of the path Slytherin's 
> legacy had put him on.


SSSusan again:
So why didn't he *choose* to deny that?  He did not *have* to follow 
Slytherin's path.  Harry learned that he could've done great things 
in Slytherin House, but he *begged* not to be put there.  Voldy 
tempted him to join him, grab the power, which is all that matters, 
and he *chose* not to.  Yes, Harry knew his parents had been White 
Hats, so perhaps his choice was somewhat easier, but I still don't 
see Tom's choice to follow SS's path as *predetermined*.


Del:
> And by the way, Harry did come close to strutting around. During the
> summer in OoP, he does repeat to himself that *he* did all those
> things, so how do his friends *dare* keep him in the dark.

SSSusan:
I absolutely disagree that this was strutting.  This, imho, was 
frustration hitting the boiling point.  He wanted to know what was 
going on; he knew other people--possibly Ron & Hermione included--
knew what was happening, while he was in the dark, and he didn't 
*understand* that.  The only way to make the point that he doesn't 
think that's fair is to point out that *he* had taken on Voldy, not 
the others.  I saw that as righteous indignation, not as strutting.



SSSusan wrote previously:
>> if we see Harry choosing to fight the impulses for revenge, hate &
cruelty, why CAN'T we expect Tom to choose to fight them, too, once
he's at Hogwarts?<<  
 
Del replied:
> Harry doesn't fight them very well, does he ? He did spare Peter's
> life, but he wasn't feeling any hate or anger at that time. But he
> sure was feeling a lot of anger when he attempted to Crucio Bella...

SSSusan:
I don't see it that way at all.  He chose to spare Peter when the 
easier thing to do would have been to allow him to be killed.  He 
also spared Sirius in order to hear the full story.  He **couldn't** 
summon enough hatred to Crucio Bella, which again speaks to his 
fighting impulses very well--even better than he wants to at the 
moment, I would say.



Del: 
> As for why we can't expect the same things from Tom and Harry, the
> answer is simple : because Harry knows better. Harry knows love, he
> knows how good it feels to do the right thing, he believes in good 
> and evil. Tom doesn't know love, he doesn't believe in good and 
> evil. Tom is barely a toddler when it comes to good and evil : 
> that's where his stunted emotional development comes into play. 
> He's stuck in the "I" phase : I want this or that, I like this or 
> that, I, I, I. He's completely inconsiderate of others' needs and 
> feelings, just like very young children, because he never grew up 
> emotionally. Harry did, even though it's kind of a miracle that he 
> did, considering his circumstances.

SSSusan:
I absolutely agree that Tom is *all* Id, whereas Harry has a quite 
hefty Superego (and both have a problem with Ego = reality in this 
model, NOT self-conceit).  But if Tom was able to act the part of law-
abiding citizen, responsible young adult, so well as to attain 
Prefect & HB status, then he DOES understand right vs. wrong!!  He is 
choosing to do what he wants; he isn't fighting those "id" impulses 
at all.  And I think, given that it was quite some time before he 
discovered the Heir of Slytherin stuff, that there was ample time for 
some of this Superego & Ego stuff to have developed.  I can't prove 
it, but my belief is that DD did show a great interest in Tom and 
tried to help him along.

Siriusly Snapey Susan